I squee

[Doktor Howl]

Also, I have to say that there is horrormirthiness in the fact that US-based corporations gave away our entire manufacturing base to China, in the name of profits. The same profits that many of our US houses now sit on, upside-down after a "bailout" that came from our pockets but benefited none of us.

There is a good reason I am considering switching trades from arts, which this country could give a fuck about, to bartending, where my main income will be more difficult to track. I have everything I ever wanted. Got my house, kids, lifestyle. My mission now is to pay the least taxes possible, because I live with a government that exists to take middle-class people in other countries back to the third world.

You'd make a hell of a bartender, anyway.

It's a shame that it's easier to exist serving poison than it is creating art.

[Cain]

Well, I havent found the figures for that, but it does turn out that 88% of all arable land in China is owned by the richest 20%.

Which is pretty wide, though not plutonomic levels of ownership (yet).

[Doktor Howl]

Well, I havent found the figures for that, but it does turn out that 88% of all arable land in China is owned by the richest 20%.

Which is pretty wide, though not plutonomic levels of ownership (yet).

How much arable land is there?

[Cain]

So far the figures are between 10-14% but those sources aren't entirely reliable.

[Doktor Howl]

So far the figures are between 10-14% but those sources aren't entirely reliable.

A lot of mountains, lots of desert (and more every month).

[Cain]

Ah, here we are. 

From a Remnin University study:

Currently, there are only 118,755.00 million hectares of arable land, or only slightly more than 900.0 m² per inhabitant

[Doktor Howl]

Ah, here we are.  

From a Remnin University study:

Currently, there are only 118,755.00 million hectares of arable land, or only slightly more than 900.0 m² per inhabitant

Yeah, I found this:

http://www.worldwatch.org/node/3912

A survey released last month by China's Ministry of Land and Resources revealed that the country has lost 8 million hectares, or 6.6 percent, of its arable land in the past decade, Beijing News reported.

As of November 2005, China had approximately 122 million hectares of arable land, covering 13 percent of its territory. This amounted to 0.27 hectares per capita, less than 40 percent of the world per capita average, one-eighth the U.S. level, and one-half the Indian level.    

Several major factors are contributing to the land loss. In eastern China, a booming economy and growing urban sprawl have increased the use of arable land for construction purposes. Over the past five years, half of the country's newly added construction land area, a total of 2.19 million hectares, was converted from existing or potential farmlands.

In China's west, where the government has promoted restoration of degraded or fragile ecosystems, lower-quality arable lands have been appropriated for forest or grassland replanting efforts. This has been the dominant driver of arable land loss in recent years, accounting for 84.5, 88.2, 91.6, and 87.3 percent of the annual net losses of the past four years, respectively.

Coupled with the shrinking of arable lands, China's population has been growing by some 10 million people annually, and now comprises 22 percent of the world total. Yet the country is home to only 7 percent of all arable land, creating a rising food security concern, according to Xinhua News Agency.

Leaves about 30 meters X 30 meters farmland per person.

[Doktor Howl]

2,143.1 kg/ha of wheat is produced in China, on land reserved for wheat.

1 Ha = 10000M²

900M² per person = 9% * 2143.1 = 192.879 Kg of wheat/person.  It takes 1 quart of wheat per day to feed one man, and a quart wheat = .85Kg. 

One man's land area = 222 days of food production/person, if all arable land was used for wheat.

That's 143 days short.

[Doktor Howl]

Note that Japan gets double the amount of wheat per acre, so the issue seems to be poor farming techniques.

And too many fucking people.

[Cain]

Looks like being a large farmer with a cargo ship would be a good future career.

[Doktor Howl]

Looks like being a large farmer with a cargo ship would be a good future career.

China seems to be using fish farming, etc, to increase food yields, as well as horribly overfishing wild fish.

Problem:  the mercury and arsenic in their farmed fish is astronomically high.

In any case, if their population doesn't go down drastically, they're in trouble, as they're losing thousands of hectares/year of arable land.

[Cain]

Overfishing will just cause a return to the more traditional occupation in the South China Sea, once those stocks run out.

Which will make importing food rather difficult, though much more exciting.

[Doktor Howl]

Overfishing will just cause a return to the more traditional occupation in the South China Sea, once those stocks run out.

Which will make importing food rather difficult, though much more exciting.

Interesting note:  1.5 Bn people aren't going to sit still and starve, are they?

[Cain]

Historically the condition of China has been more akin to this than this.  If aint broke, don't attempt to centralize it into a massive, sprawling despotism which will inevitably collapse.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Looks like being a large farmer with a cargo ship would be a good future career.

Problem:  the mercury and arsenic in their farmed fish is astronomically high.

In any case, if their population doesn't go down drastically, they're in trouble...

Am I the only one who's optimistic this problem will sort itself out