G20 Protests: fucked.

[Cain]

That's pretty much Zizek's entire critique of the liberal legalist/fundamentalist fascist dialectic in a nutshell.

The problem, as I see it, is this: when there were other possibilities, such as Communism, which seemed viable, governments would make concessions in order to stave off the possibility of mass revolt intended to bring about that kind of society.  A kind of political innoculation, if you will.  Putting up with minimum wage in return for not seeing re-runs of the Red Terror.  Downgrading the privileges of the aristocracy to prevent the guillotine.  And so on and so forth.

Now, as we are so frequently reminded, there are no alternatives.  End of history, yadda yadda, and the middle/upper class college students Jenne referred to certainly aren't going to flock towards radical Islam in order to piss off their parents (why should they, when their parents got free love and to smoke pot?).   Since the far-right feeds off many inherent problems within liberal democracy, the emphasis on there being no other alternative automatically spawns a fundamentalist/fascist "purifying" backlash.

And that is Zizek in two paragraphs.

[LMNO]

Wow.  We're pretty much forced to go Right, then?

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Wow.  We're pretty much forced to go Right, then?

That's depressing....

[Doktor Howl]

Wow.  We're pretty much forced to go Right, then?

Kind of had my feet up, munching on celery, since kids figured out that right wing racism was the only way to piss off their hippy parents.

[Jenne]

Wow.  We're pretty much forced to go Right, then?

Kind of had my feet up, munching on celery, since kids figured out that right wing racism was the only way to piss off their hippy parents.

...but what about those of us with the opposite spectrum?  MY parents flipped off the hippies themselves and embraced right-wing Bible-thumping fascism...

Course, is it ALL reactionaryism?  I think a large part is, but sometimes there's also a "shoe that fits."  So to speak.  I think the progressives (ugh, like ME) were duped into believing that Obamites were telling them truisms about his intentions.  As we quickly sour on him like yesterday's milk, and maybe prematurely, but all points lead to "fuck no, he's a schmoe," I can't see myself turning back to the Conservatard movement.

But then, I'm old.  So I guess my pov is really a no go show here ITT...I just feel like I've so recently been a PART of a general protest, but really, I haven't.  If I had an opportunity, I think I would, though.  *ponders*

[Doktor Howl]

Wow.  We're pretty much forced to go Right, then?

Kind of had my feet up, munching on celery, since kids figured out that right wing racism was the only way to piss off their hippy parents.

...but what about those of us with the opposite spectrum?  MY parents flipped off the hippies themselves and embraced right-wing Bible-thumping fascism...

Course, is it ALL reactionaryism?  I think a large part is, but sometimes there's also a "shoe that fits."  So to speak.  I think the progressives (ugh, like ME) were duped into believing that Obamites were telling them truisms about his intentions.  As we quickly sour on him like yesterday's milk, and maybe prematurely, but all points lead to "fuck no, he's a schmoe," I can't see myself turning back to the Conservatard movement.

But then, I'm old.  So I guess my pov is really a no go show here ITT...I just feel like I've so recently been a PART of a general protest, but really, I haven't.  If I had an opportunity, I think I would, though.  *ponders*

Yous spend your teens and twenties trying to rebel against your parents, your thirties and forties concentrating on your own life, and when you turn 50, you ARE your parents.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Wow.  We're pretty much forced to go Right, then?

Kind of had my feet up, munching on celery, since kids figured out that right wing racism was the only way to piss off their hippy parents.

...but what about those of us with the opposite spectrum?  MY parents flipped off the hippies themselves and embraced right-wing Bible-thumping fascism...

Course, is it ALL reactionaryism?  I think a large part is, but sometimes there's also a "shoe that fits."  So to speak.  I think the progressives (ugh, like ME) were duped into believing that Obamites were telling them truisms about his intentions.  As we quickly sour on him like yesterday's milk, and maybe prematurely, but all points lead to "fuck no, he's a schmoe," I can't see myself turning back to the Conservatard movement.

But then, I'm old.  So I guess my pov is really a no go show here ITT...I just feel like I've so recently been a PART of a general protest, but really, I haven't.  If I had an opportunity, I think I would, though.  *ponders*

No it's not all reactionary. Wasn't for me at least. Grew up surrounded by liberals by any account, and I have always been either right where they are or even further left. Not out of rebellion.

[Cramulus]

And that is Zizek in two paragraphs.

ugh


so is the only way to enact real change to support the most violent factions?




ugh

[Nephew Twiddleton]

And that is Zizek in two paragraphs.

ugh


so is the only way to enact real change to support the most violent factions?




ugh

General trend of history. Gandhis are rare. Plus that only works in certain scenarios. He told the Jewish population of Germany to let Hitler do his thing and they would win in the end.

[Reginald Ret]

 brainfart:
HEAP
Holocaust Education And Prevention
Educate every minority on guerrilla tactics and the construction and use of firearms.
How effective would the Nazi's have been if for every 3 Jews/gays/stoners/gypsies they locked away 1 german soldier died?
getting such a killratio wouldn't be that hard if everyone is shooting back, right?
A lot more fatal 'accidents' in peace time that way, but at least no minority will go oppressed.
And before someone says  "but then the minorities will start oppressing other people"  see bolded text above(that means every living person).

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Problem with that though is that it would have given them more propaganda fuel.

Actually my favorite anecdote about that time period was this:

SS barges in to this Jewish guy's home and start giving him shit and what not. Jewish guy starts getting really pissed and reaches into a drawer while he's shouting at them. SS get ready to take him down until they see him holding up an Iron Cross. Jewish guy says, "See this?! I got awarded this in the Great War. Is this what I fucking fought for?!?!?!"

They gave him the Nazi salute and walked out. I think I caught this on the History Channel, so I can't cite it, and I know I don't remember it very accurately, or what happened to him in the long run, but I thought that was cool. Kinda like, "I was shooting Frogs and Roast-Beefs when you were shitting your diapers, and you want to haul me off for not being German enough?" And they fucked off. What could they say?

[the last yatto]

funny that Seattle isnt the only one that gets a small handful of MIB starting shit,

i liked the video of the guy almost pulling off one of their masks as he attempted to throw a rock.
shame really if wasnt for those spags the only time those batons would have been used was with a hooker

[Cain]

And that is Zizek in two paragraphs.

ugh


so is the only way to enact real change to support the most violent factions?




ugh

Zizek, I believe, has no problem with truly revolutionary violence (though he very much agrees the police states of Actually Existing Socialism were authoritarian shitholes, and I may be misreading him on the violence part).  For him though, the fascist/liberal dialectic goes much further, into Lacanian psychology and other things.  I'll try and find some quotes on....shit, my free time is basically up in the air until I get this passport shit worked out.

[Hoser McRhizzy]

While some of you think "stupid hippies" when it comes to these things, I've been watching the video's on youtube and this one is particularly fucked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aohGLp00MmU

Sign of the times.

Hi Kai.  Thanks for starting this thread.  Dirty Hippie reporting in.  

Maybe you've all heard this already, but maybe not.  But here's a little of what we're left with after the weekend.

700 of the over 900 'detainees' have been released and not charged with anything.  People are still being released.  Kind of like what happened in Miami 7 years ago at the FTAA summit, only with 3 times the number of people rounded up.  

About 1,000 people showed up yesterday to a march protesting the police brutality this weekend.  Heard some people giving speeches about being detained.  Heard from more who had children, friends, partners, etc detained.  Heard from people who were out for a walk, or on their way to work, who were approached by police and told that they were illegally protesting.  And not just downtown.  Random parks and sidewalks turned into no-go zones.

The conflation of "detainment" with "arrest" by the police and media is unsurprising, but still really fucking gross.  Of course, the police are assuring their mouthpieces that they'll do a thorough investigation of themselves to determine that they've done nothing wrong.  Expect "a few bad apples" and "miscommunication" at 11.  

At least sites with more readers than rags like The Globe and Mail (eg. BoingBoing) can set the story down before it gets edited again.

[Captain Utopia]

I'd love for what happened on Sunday to be turned into a national scandal.  I just don't think it will.

I hope so, too.

But just for the record, it really started during the weekdays leading up to the protest, when police were raiding people's homes and detaining people known to be part of the movement.

btw... "Hipster legends" and "lattes"?  You're kidding, right? 

Actually, I'm just a bit annoyed at the protesters and I was expressing it through sarcasm.  The story which I would have loved to read Monday morning would have been along the lines of "Riot police thoroughly bored as a peaceful weekend of protesting drew to a close.  The only attempted instance of vandalism was quickly subdued by the crowd. Blah blah".  Instead of the crowd cheering on the violence, and being supportive - "this broken window will be my new desktop wallpaper, hurrr hurrr".

I totally support the right to protest.  And I would have supported that right even more had they chosen to protest a week earlier or a week later.  Why?  Because picking the G20 weekend for a myriad of different protests to compete for attention was not so much a chance to get the message out for their respective causes - that was always going to be lost to the bigger story - but because they knew it would lead to confrontation and violence.  Moreover - each protester knew that there was a very small chance that they'd be the ones ending up on the wrong end of a billy-club - someone else spilling blood was a price they were willing to pay.

It's like the walking through the wrong neighbourhood, wearing the wrong colours and saying the exact wrong things to the wrong gang.  In no way is abuse of power, violence or intimidation even remotely acceptable.. but if you walk into the situation knowing exactly what to expect, then please don't play the surprised victim card afterwards.

And we know the script.  The career-cop being drafted in for the weekend isn't going to sacrifice his pension and families lifestyle by suddenly quitting, or joining the protesters.  No - the narrative fed to him will be one-sided and utterly compelling.  We know he is just one brick in the wall - predictable and unthinking.  That isn't about right or wrong, just what is.  They are The Machine, and they aren't going to change until we learn to attack The Machine more effectively.  If we fuck up and attack it in the wrong way, then we make The Machine more powerful -- the next "G" summit has just been given more justification for over-the-top security measures.  And the protesters there will be sure to grant The Machine plenty of excuses to exercise its newfound muscle.  And so on.

That's what pisses me off.