Psychedelics question

[BadBeast]

Okay, I'll dig it up, find a tape player, (remember them?) and upload it in the next couple of days.

[Lies]

Thanks, look forward to it

[Don Coyote]

Okay, I'll dig it up, find a tape player, (remember them?) and upload it in the next couple of days.

Ancient Sorcery!!!!!

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!!

[BadBeast]

It's ancient, Japanese Analogick! Do not mock the magnetickal properties of the compact ones.
Pray that the Great God Dolby shall reduce the hissing one to silence, and the monstrous Eight Track returneth not! 

[BabylonHoruv]

Now, I love a good once or twice-yearly encounter with shrooms (pretty much the only drug I indulge in anymore besides beer), but I wouldn't say that breathing walls, color trails, and incurable giggles are "really important, life changing shit".

Shrooms is very situational.  If I take them and then go to a rave, or play videogames, or stare at the wall, they are a lot of fun, but, like you said, nothing transcendental.  If I take them with the intention of having a spiritual experience, and set out to do so (in, my case this means spending time outside, chanting, drumming, singing, and so forth)  It greatly intensifies the spiritual experience.

I don't know if this is something an Atheist can really experience, it's one of those things that, in my opinion, you have to believe in for it to work.  I may be wrong, and it is certainly something that has been experienced by earnest Agnostics without changing their belief structure.

[Lies]

Now, I love a good once or twice-yearly encounter with shrooms (pretty much the only drug I indulge in anymore besides beer), but I wouldn't say that breathing walls, color trails, and incurable giggles are "really important, life changing shit".

Shrooms is very situational.  If I take them and then go to a rave, or play videogames, or stare at the wall, they are a lot of fun, but, like you said, nothing transcendental.  If I take them with the intention of having a spiritual experience, and set out to do so (in, my case this means spending time outside, chanting, drumming, singing, and so forth)  It greatly intensifies the spiritual experience.

I don't know if this is something an Atheist can really experience, it's one of those things that, in my opinion, you have to believe in for it to work.  I may be wrong, and it is certainly something that has been experienced by earnest Agnostics without changing their belief structure.

Ahem.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9522-magic-mushrooms-really-cause-spiritual-experiences.html

[BabylonHoruv]

Another thing with UK Police, that isn't so prevalent in US Police forces, is their Socialising is done exclusively with other Police Officers. Their personality (or lack of it) means they cannot relate to normal people. They can't stop being mistrustful, nosy, aloof, and superior. Which makes them piss poor company for anyone else. And if they are out, say at a Club, and they are recognised, they are in trouble. They do not have Uniform on. But they carry themselves like they are cock of the block still. They are fair game at these times. Vulnerable, because they aren't tooled up, or wearing those ridiculous stab jackets. If they get themselves into a fight, they are on their own. They can't ring up the Station for backup. Procedure would include their own arrest. And that isn't a good career move. So they are always edgy. They lie, about their job, if asked by anyone. They are told to do this, because it puts them in a vulnerable position. Where they might be targetted by a Villain, and forced to compromise themselves. Or the Force. Not much use to anyone, for anything much, any of them, IMO.

US cops it depends a lot on where you are.  Most of them will happily socialize with you when they are not busy.  It is a very good idea to do so.  If they know you they are not going to keep from arresting you, or even beating you, but they are less likely to take non hostile actions as hostile.  And they aren't anywhere near as likely to beat you without you having provoked it somewhat intentionally.  Naturally it is a good idea to watch your mouth.  

[BabylonHoruv]

Now, I love a good once or twice-yearly encounter with shrooms (pretty much the only drug I indulge in anymore besides beer), but I wouldn't say that breathing walls, color trails, and incurable giggles are "really important, life changing shit".

Shrooms is very situational.  If I take them and then go to a rave, or play videogames, or stare at the wall, they are a lot of fun, but, like you said, nothing transcendental.  If I take them with the intention of having a spiritual experience, and set out to do so (in, my case this means spending time outside, chanting, drumming, singing, and so forth)  It greatly intensifies the spiritual experience.

I don't know if this is something an Atheist can really experience, it's one of those things that, in my opinion, you have to believe in for it to work.  I may be wrong, and it is certainly something that has been experienced by earnest Agnostics without changing their belief structure.

Ahem.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9522-magic-mushrooms-really-cause-spiritual-experiences.html

Yeah, the chemicals in your brain are the same.  That doesn't mean that they "really" cause spiritual experiences.  Like ECH said, he hasn't had a spiritual experience on them.  However he almost certainly did have the same chemicals in his brain as a saint or yogi undergoing a spiritual experience.

[Lies]

Now, I love a good once or twice-yearly encounter with shrooms (pretty much the only drug I indulge in anymore besides beer), but I wouldn't say that breathing walls, color trails, and incurable giggles are "really important, life changing shit".

Shrooms is very situational.  If I take them and then go to a rave, or play videogames, or stare at the wall, they are a lot of fun, but, like you said, nothing transcendental.  If I take them with the intention of having a spiritual experience, and set out to do so (in, my case this means spending time outside, chanting, drumming, singing, and so forth)  It greatly intensifies the spiritual experience.

I don't know if this is something an Atheist can really experience, it's one of those things that, in my opinion, you have to believe in for it to work.  I may be wrong, and it is certainly something that has been experienced by earnest Agnostics without changing their belief structure.

Ahem.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9522-magic-mushrooms-really-cause-spiritual-experiences.html

Yeah, the chemicals in your brain are the same.  That doesn't mean that they "really" cause spiritual experiences.  Like ECH said, he hasn't had a spiritual experience on them.  However he almost certainly did have the same chemicals in his brain as a saint or yogi undergoing a spiritual experience.

Well, what exactly "is" a spiritual experience?

Sometimes, it's just the unveiling of how the world normally looks being replaced by a new reality.
That's how it was for me, personally.

[BabylonHoruv]

Now, I love a good once or twice-yearly encounter with shrooms (pretty much the only drug I indulge in anymore besides beer), but I wouldn't say that breathing walls, color trails, and incurable giggles are "really important, life changing shit".

Shrooms is very situational.  If I take them and then go to a rave, or play videogames, or stare at the wall, they are a lot of fun, but, like you said, nothing transcendental.  If I take them with the intention of having a spiritual experience, and set out to do so (in, my case this means spending time outside, chanting, drumming, singing, and so forth)  It greatly intensifies the spiritual experience.

I don't know if this is something an Atheist can really experience, it's one of those things that, in my opinion, you have to believe in for it to work.  I may be wrong, and it is certainly something that has been experienced by earnest Agnostics without changing their belief structure.

Ahem.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9522-magic-mushrooms-really-cause-spiritual-experiences.html

Yeah, the chemicals in your brain are the same.  That doesn't mean that they "really" cause spiritual experiences.  Like ECH said, he hasn't had a spiritual experience on them.  However he almost certainly did have the same chemicals in his brain as a saint or yogi undergoing a spiritual experience.

Well, what exactly "is" a spiritual experience?

Sometimes, it's just the unveiling of how the world normally looks being replaced by a new reality.
That's how it was for me, personally.

I'd say, if that reality is real, in the sense that you can use it when you are not high, then it was an insight, whether that insight is spiritual or not really depends on how you look at it.  I really think only spiritual people can have spiritual experiences.  I'm open to being disproven by someone saying they had a spiritual experience but are an atheist, however if you don't believe in spirit, how can you have a spiritual experience?  That'd be like me saying I met a sparkley vampire the other day.  "Well, was it a real sparkley vampire?"  "Of course not, I don't believe in vampires, it just behaved in exactly the way people who believe in sparkley vampires say they behave, but it was actually a hallucination" (or however Atheists would explain what seemed in every respect to be a spiritual experience, I'm not Atheist, and that is a really hard mind tunnel for me to get into)

[Lies]

Now, I love a good once or twice-yearly encounter with shrooms (pretty much the only drug I indulge in anymore besides beer), but I wouldn't say that breathing walls, color trails, and incurable giggles are "really important, life changing shit".

Shrooms is very situational.  If I take them and then go to a rave, or play videogames, or stare at the wall, they are a lot of fun, but, like you said, nothing transcendental.  If I take them with the intention of having a spiritual experience, and set out to do so (in, my case this means spending time outside, chanting, drumming, singing, and so forth)  It greatly intensifies the spiritual experience.

I don't know if this is something an Atheist can really experience, it's one of those things that, in my opinion, you have to believe in for it to work.  I may be wrong, and it is certainly something that has been experienced by earnest Agnostics without changing their belief structure.

Ahem.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9522-magic-mushrooms-really-cause-spiritual-experiences.html

Yeah, the chemicals in your brain are the same.  That doesn't mean that they "really" cause spiritual experiences.  Like ECH said, he hasn't had a spiritual experience on them.  However he almost certainly did have the same chemicals in his brain as a saint or yogi undergoing a spiritual experience.

Well, what exactly "is" a spiritual experience?

Sometimes, it's just the unveiling of how the world normally looks being replaced by a new reality.
That's how it was for me, personally.

I'd say, if that reality is real, in the sense that you can use it when you are not high, then it was an insight, whether that insight is spiritual or not really depends on how you look at it.  I really think only spiritual people can have spiritual experiences.  I'm open to being disproven by someone saying they had a spiritual experience but are an atheist, however if you don't believe in spirit, how can you have a spiritual experience?  That'd be like me saying I met a sparkley vampire the other day.  "Well, was it a real sparkley vampire?"  "Of course not, I don't believe in vampires, it just behaved in exactly the way people who believe in sparkley vampires say they behave, but it was actually a hallucination" (or however Atheists would explain what seemed in every respect to be a spiritual experience, I'm not Atheist, and that is a really hard mind tunnel for me to get into)

Well, I *am* an atheist for the most part who had a spiritual experience on drugs.

How does that work you ask?

Hail Eris.

[Lies]

Also, if it were up to me, I'd make it almost mandatory (as in, you have a choice whether or not to do it, but you'll be heavily persuaded to do so) for anyone who reaches 21 (or perhaps even earlier) to take a hit of DMT.

That shit will seriously make you question reality and give you a whole new perspective on what this whole "life" thing is.

[BabylonHoruv]

Also, if it were up to me, I'd make it almost mandatory (as in, you have a choice whether or not to do it, but you'll be heavily persuaded to do so) for anyone who reaches 21 (or perhaps even earlier) to take a hit of DMT.

That shit will seriously make you question reality and give you a whole new perspective on what this whole "life" thing is.

I did Ayahuasca, she strongly urged me not to do DMT.  She also fixed my relationship with my brother in law and set me on the path to fixing my relationship with my wife.  According to chemists ayahuasca is DMT, orally potentiated by an MAOI, the MAOI has some minor anti-depressant effects and Ayahuasca lasts much longer.  I did not try DMT, my scientific curiousity was outweighed by the serious difference in legal status, and, more importantly, pure taboo from the Aya telling me not to try it.

The trip reports I have read of both made me pick up the opinion that DMT would be a HELL of a lot of fun for me, but that I would not be likely to find much value in the insights it would offer.  Doesn't mean it doesn't work for you, but I doubt that it would for me.

As far as the spiritual experience, I guess that's something I am not going to be able to logically comprehend.  Which is often part of the nature of spiritual experiences.  Did it affirm your atheism for you? (again, I may be mistranslating tunnels, I am usually in an Animist tunnel and spiritual experiences, for me, almost always take animist metaphors to give me insights)

[Triple Zero]

Ahem.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9522-magic-mushrooms-really-cause-spiritual-experiences.html

Yeah, the chemicals in your brain are the same.  That doesn't mean that they "really" cause spiritual experiences.  Like ECH said, he hasn't had a spiritual experience on them.  However he almost certainly did have the same chemicals in his brain as a saint or yogi undergoing a spiritual experience.

Well, to me there is no difference between what "really" is a spiritual experience and the chemicals in my brain.

I don't get it, you just called yourself an atheist and then you say there is a difference between a spiritual experience and a certain chemical configuration in your brain? Then what is the difference made of? Hypothetical invisible pink unicorns?

For me, I mean, there is no difference in some sense*. Cause you know those people, the rationalists that say "love" is just a chemical configuration in your brain? It's the same thing, they are right, in some sense, but IMO life becomes pretty boring if you only look at it that way. In fact, you could almost literally say, life loses some of its magic

Now, I'm not saying that if you consider "love" to be something more than just chemicals, you also should consider a spiritual experience more than just a hallucination or whatever. I'm perfectly alright with everybody having their own opinion on that.

(* sorry but here it means exactly what I want to say)

[Lies]

Also, if it were up to me, I'd make it almost mandatory (as in, you have a choice whether or not to do it, but you'll be heavily persuaded to do so) for anyone who reaches 21 (or perhaps even earlier) to take a hit of DMT.

That shit will seriously make you question reality and give you a whole new perspective on what this whole "life" thing is.

I did Ayahuasca, she strongly urged me not to do DMT.  She also fixed my relationship with my brother in law and set me on the path to fixing my relationship with my wife.  According to chemists ayahuasca is DMT, orally potentiated by an MAOI, the MAOI has some minor anti-depressant effects and Ayahuasca lasts much longer.  I did not try DMT, my scientific curiousity was outweighed by the serious difference in legal status, and, more importantly, pure taboo from the Aya telling me not to try it.

The trip reports I have read of both made me pick up the opinion that DMT would be a HELL of a lot of fun for me, but that I would not be likely to find much value in the insights it would offer.  Doesn't mean it doesn't work for you, but I doubt that it would for me.

As far as the spiritual experience, I guess that's something I am not going to be able to logically comprehend.  Which is often part of the nature of spiritual experiences.  Did it affirm your atheism for you? (again, I may be mistranslating tunnels, I am usually in an Animist tunnel and spiritual experiences, for me, almost always take animist metaphors to give me insights)

Oh for sure, DMT is kind of a cheapened version of Aya, it only lasts for 10 minutes(but that ten minutes feels like an eternity), and you literally go to a different world, it doesn't just *alter* the one you are in.

To me, it confirmed... well, nothing, it just gave me a lot more questions.
I've seen a side of reality that a very very small percentage of the population could ever hope to see, what it is exactly is impossible to describe, it's one of those "You had to be there" kinda things.

It both gave me a strong spiritual and atheistic experience, something that is just impossible to describe in words.
People try, and they sort of only ever touch the surface of it, no one person can give you a complete description of what a DMT trip *really* is, and to different people, it means different things and there are many theories.

Regardless of that, I still think it would be a good idea that everyone try it at least *once* in their lives.

I think I know where Aya is coming from when she suggests to stay away from it... it's an extremely intense experience, and is kinda like Aya's bad boy big brother (I call him Dimitri ) in a sense.

You can probably think of it as, a feminine trip vs a masculine trip, Aya vs DMT. One is a gentle(ish), guiding visual experience, the other a more intense, in your face brain splattering against the wall extra-dimensional experience.

I'm not sure since I have not visited Aya yet, but from what I understand of her, that's what the difference is.