Anarchy

[BabylonHoruv]

An anarchist society and a democratic society share one major commonality: they both contain people. And people are horrible, especially in groups.

Reading The Dark Side of Democracy, it is easy to see how the maintanence of that particular order leads to terrible things like ethnic cleansing of all shapes and sizes.

However, letting go of it in favor of anarchy isn't going to remove the problem because with anarchy you're still dealing with the same exact problem: humans. Except with anarchy there's no system in place to seperate the truly awful people.

What about serial killers? Right now, in our fucked up system, it's pretty challening to cut people up and shove the pieces of their bodies into your fridge because things are kept orderly. People are accounted for. In an anarchist system (lol), wouldn't people like that be more free to engage in such behavior?

Whether they call themselves Anarchists or WHATEVER, I fear them because the have those nasty human habits like murder and rape and genocide and egotistical violence.

And while they're not always the best option, those armed and greedy folks do often keep me from being raped/murdered etc for the majority of the time. Sure, THEY may end up doing the raping/murdering. But from what I can tell, that thin veneer we call civilization does lessen such things.


Oh, nevermind. Cudgel put it better and more succinctly than I was able to do.

I'd say it is easier for a Serial Killer to get away with it now than it would be in a stateless society.  Currently the force of law restricts the way in which a Serial Killer can be hunted. 

[Salty]

No. They both do terrible things in their own terrible ways.
Not more or less likely. People = Terrible Things. Other things as well, but it's foolish to discount the terrible things in favor of the nice. Or benign.

An anarchist society and a democratic society share one major commonality: they both contain people. And people are horrible, especially in groups.

Reading The Dark Side of Democracy, it is easy to see how the maintanence of that particular order leads to terrible things like ethnic cleansing of all shapes and sizes.

However, letting go of it in favor of anarchy isn't going to remove the problem because with anarchy you're still dealing with the same exact problem: humans. Except with anarchy there's no system in place to seperate the truly awful people.

What about serial killers? Right now, in our fucked up system, it's pretty challening to cut people up and shove the pieces of their bodies into your fridge because things are kept orderly. People are accounted for. In an anarchist system (lol), wouldn't people like that be more free to engage in such behavior?

Whether they call themselves Anarchists or WHATEVER, I fear them because the have those nasty human habits like murder and rape and genocide and egotistical violence.

And while they're not always the best option, those armed and greedy folks do often keep me from being raped/murdered etc for the majority of the time. Sure, THEY may end up doing the raping/murdering. But from what I can tell, that thin veneer we call civilization does lessen such things.


Oh, nevermind. Cudgel put it better and more succinctly than I was able to do.

I'd say it is easier for a Serial Killer to get away with it now than it would be in a stateless society.  Currently the force of law restricts the way in which a Serial Killer can be hunted.  

Okay, say that were true.
What about the poor bastards who get a mob at their door looking for evidence? And what if they decide that their evidence is accurate? Who the fuck are those people? What qualifies them to make these decisions? Their "initiative"?

In a stateless society as you deascribed, wouldn't the person meeting the mob have every right to shoot as many of them as possible in the face?

[BabylonHoruv]

No. They both do terrible things in their own terrible ways.
Not more or less likely. People = Terrible Things. Other things as well, but it's foolish to discount the terrible things in favor of the nice. Or benign.

An anarchist society and a democratic society share one major commonality: they both contain people. And people are horrible, especially in groups.

Reading The Dark Side of Democracy, it is easy to see how the maintanence of that particular order leads to terrible things like ethnic cleansing of all shapes and sizes.

However, letting go of it in favor of anarchy isn't going to remove the problem because with anarchy you're still dealing with the same exact problem: humans. Except with anarchy there's no system in place to seperate the truly awful people.

What about serial killers? Right now, in our fucked up system, it's pretty challening to cut people up and shove the pieces of their bodies into your fridge because things are kept orderly. People are accounted for. In an anarchist system (lol), wouldn't people like that be more free to engage in such behavior?

Whether they call themselves Anarchists or WHATEVER, I fear them because the have those nasty human habits like murder and rape and genocide and egotistical violence.

And while they're not always the best option, those armed and greedy folks do often keep me from being raped/murdered etc for the majority of the time. Sure, THEY may end up doing the raping/murdering. But from what I can tell, that thin veneer we call civilization does lessen such things.


Oh, nevermind. Cudgel put it better and more succinctly than I was able to do.

I'd say it is easier for a Serial Killer to get away with it now than it would be in a stateless society.  Currently the force of law restricts the way in which a Serial Killer can be hunted.  

Okay, say that were true.
What about the poor bastards who get a mob at their door looking for evidence? And what if they decide that their evidence is accurate? Who the fuck are those people? What qualifies them to make these decisions? Their "initiative"?

In a stateless society as you deascribed, wouldn't the person meeting the mob have every right to shoot as many of them as possible in the face?

Well sure.  It's a stateless society, you don't really have legal rights or the lack thereof.

On the other hand escalating to deadly violence against a vastly greater number of people who are probably also armed (even if not as well armed as you and not on their own home turf) is generally an unwise tactical decision.

Certainly there would be some injustice, there'd be some people who would be wrongly accused and wrongly punished, there'd also be some killers and thieves who would get away with their crimes who ought to suffer.  This is the case now and has been in every society.  People are people and people do bad things and get away with it.

The difference isn't that I think that would magically go away if the state went away, it's that I don't think an Anarchist system of justice would be any less just than our current one and would be more likely to represent local familiarity with the situation, which would lead to more nuanced and useful decisions, punishments, and so forth.

[Requia ☣]

Did anything new come out of this particular anarchy thread, or can I assume its exactly like the other anarchy threads and skip the last ten pages?

[BadBeast]

Did anything new come out of this particular anarchy thread, or can I assume its exactly like the other anarchy threads and skip the last ten pages?

Don't know about any other Anarchy threads, but yes, you are free to assume whatever you want to. However, there may be one or two points in there that will turn the World upside down. Or not.

[the last yatto]

I'd say it is easier for a Serial Killer to get away with it now than it would be in a stateless society.  Currently the force of law restricts the way in which a Serial Killer can be hunted. 

I say it depends, more innocent people would die under a self law system. And if the killer was well like and trusted id say he could remove quite a few, more so if he had allies. That's why it really lends itself to dogma then merely some political party

[BabylonHoruv]

Did anything new come out of this particular anarchy thread, or can I assume its exactly like the other anarchy threads and skip the last ten pages?

Those opposed to Anarchy said about exactly the same stuff they always say.  Those in favor was pretty much just me and BadBeast.  Usually Rat is the one I see defending Anarchy, so the pro-Anarchy arguements may have been phrased a bit differently than usual.

[the last yatto]

Think about it, most of them don't vote on principle and attend protests like one would attend church. Skip a few sundays and suddenly your an outsider.

[Golden Applesauce]

I'd say it is easier for a Serial Killer to get away with it now than it would be in a stateless society.  Currently the force of law restricts the way in which a Serial Killer can be hunted. 

You're wrong.  I normally e-prime most of my statements (look, I'm doing it again) but you're wrong.  Currently, the force of law increases the ways in which a serial killer can be hunted by providing funding for things like fingerprint databases, forensics, surveillance, witness protection programs, and professional police.  Without the state, you wouldn't be hunting serial killers, you'd be hunting minorities or fringe members who everyone knows are all basically criminals, even if they didn't commit that specific crime.

[Requia ☣]

I'd say it is easier for a Serial Killer to get away with it now than it would be in a stateless society.  Currently the force of law restricts the way in which a Serial Killer can be hunted. 

Wait, so i should embrace anarchy so instead of dealing with asshole cops that are limited by the law I can deal with asshole vigilanties that have no such restrictions?

Shit we can give up the probable cause and evidence bullshit right now, why wait for anarchy?

[BadBeast]

We are not alone, Our voices will not fade.
We confront, and question.
Our vision is absolute.

[Doktor Howl]

Do you really think a State Sanctioned code of Morality makes people behave well?  Look around you, it does no such thing.

Bullshit.  For the vast majority of people, it works quite well.

[Doktor Howl]

We are not alone, Our voices will not fade.
We confront, and question.
Our vision is absolute.

Oh, for fuck's sake.

[Doktor Howl]

This thread has made me hate you all.  Again.

It's like watching 3 history professors argue with a poster of Oscar De La Rocha.  Some people are stupid for believing in what is essentially the political version of the tooth fairy, and everyone else is stupid for wasting time arguing with them.

Fucking assholes.  I hope you all get ass cancer.

[Doktor Howl]

I'd say it is easier for a Serial Killer to get away with it now than it would be in a stateless society.  Currently the force of law restricts the way in which a Serial Killer can be hunted. 

YES, AND ALL THOSE FORENSICS LABS WOULD FUCKING FUND THEMSELVES, RIGHT?

GODDAMMIT, YOU'VE TURNED INTO WHAT YOU HATE THE MOST.  A FUCKING DUMBASS.