Negroes? In My Valhalla? It's more likely than you think.

[Phox]

Am I really the only person besides a pack of retard fundies who thinks it's stupid to represent a people's god as being a dude from a completely different tribe of people? It's very much like making a movie about Ifa and having Robin Williams play Ogun, or having a woman play the role of Jesus.

Not worth forming an organized boycott over, but still, not only culturally and historically wrong but it also seems deliberately disrespectful. I mean, after all the years of protesting that American indians have done to get Hollywood to cast indians in roles portraying indians, it would be pretty hypocritical of me not to recognize that casting a black man in the role of a european god of white-skinned people is a blatant appeal to the PC left, unless there is some historical evidence that Heimdall was once depicted with dark skin. (There are cross-racial deities in some religions, so it's not completely unheard of.)

Not a historical/Norse mythology movie. Otherwise I agree.

It's a Marvel wink to Thor: Mighty Avenger #6, where

Heimdall, much like his Marvel Universe incarnation, appears as the guard of the Bifrost bridge, sports a goatee and wears a horned helmet that casts his eyes in shadows. Unlike the Marvel Universe version, however, this Heimdall is black, a shapeshifter (taking the forms of Surtur and Fin Fang Foom) and a clear superior to Thor in combat.

This.

[Requia ☣]

Am I really the only person besides a pack of retard fundies who thinks it's stupid to represent a people's god as being a dude from a completely different tribe of people? It's very much like making a movie about Ifa and having Robin Williams play Ogun, or having a woman play the role of Jesus.

Not worth forming an organized boycott over, but still, not only culturally and historically wrong but it also seems deliberately disrespectful. I mean, after all the years of protesting that American indians have done to get Hollywood to cast indians in roles portraying indians, it would be pretty hypocritical of me not to recognize that casting a black man in the role of a european god of white-skinned people is a blatant appeal to the PC left, unless there is some historical evidence that Heimdall was once depicted with dark skin. (There are cross-racial deities in some religions, so it's not completely unheard of.)

I agree largely, but this is hardly the only problem with marvel version of Norse myth.  If they're going to take complaint with the wrong ethnicity, but ignore that the entire rest of the movie has even less to do with Norse myth than the Disney version of Hercules had to do with Greek myth, then it seems that they have some strange priorities.

[Telarus]

Yeah, if this were set in a historic Norse period, I might see a 'suspension of disbelief' problem.

In a modern Supers setting, where the character was portrayed in previous source material (the comics, not the sagas!) as a shapeshifter (I had already considered this, thanks for finding the reference Cain), this is a non-issue.

Oh, here's my comments from FB when this came up.

I admit it... flies in contrast to the "whitest Aesir" nickname, hvítastr ása. But it totally plays into the "adopted son of Odin" shtick.... Also, in the tradition of /kenning/ (which I recently discovered), hvítastr ása might be a euphemism for "Shining one", or even a sarcastically given honor-title. Further, if Heimdall's connections with Ram symbolism holds true, the "black sheep" puns start rolling in.

Is it bad that RWHN's avatar popped into my mind when I realized the pun potential at the end there?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Am I really the only person besides a pack of retard fundies who thinks it's stupid to represent a people's god as being a dude from a completely different tribe of people? It's very much like making a movie about Ifa and having Robin Williams play Ogun, or having a woman play the role of Jesus.

Not worth forming an organized boycott over, but still, not only culturally and historically wrong but it also seems deliberately disrespectful. I mean, after all the years of protesting that American indians have done to get Hollywood to cast indians in roles portraying indians, it would be pretty hypocritical of me not to recognize that casting a black man in the role of a european god of white-skinned people is a blatant appeal to the PC left, unless there is some historical evidence that Heimdall was once depicted with dark skin. (There are cross-racial deities in some religions, so it's not completely unheard of.)

I agree largely, but this is hardly the only problem with marvel version of Norse myth.  If they're going to take complaint with the wrong ethnicity, but ignore that the entire rest of the movie has even less to do with Norse myth than the Disney version of Hercules had to do with Greek myth, then it seems that they have some strange priorities.

Like I said to Cain:

It's a Marvel wink to Thor: Mighty Avenger #6, where

Heimdall, much like his Marvel Universe incarnation, appears as the guard of the Bifrost bridge, sports a goatee and wears a horned helmet that casts his eyes in shadows. Unlike the Marvel Universe version, however, this Heimdall is black, a shapeshifter (taking the forms of Surtur and Fin Fang Foom) and a clear superior to Thor in combat.

Heh, OK. I am not a comic book geek at all, so I have no business in this arena.

[BadBeast]

I seem to remember in a similar cultural dilemma in DC Comics, many years ago, I think it was in a Swamp Thing/Animal Man crossover special, (When Swampy was being hunted by the Parliament of Trees) and  it was revealed that the African Elemental Guardian of the Green (Or some such bunkum) "Bwana Beast" when he took his Helmet off, was actually *Gasp* a white man! 
I think it was the one where there was a City of Great Apes, calling a "Dum Dum" of all the Apes, (Even Magilla Gorilla was there) and Swampy was drawn in on the Green, as were many other minor DC Characters.  (Like Animal Man and Bwana Beast) Pretty sure it was Alan Moore who wrote it too.

[E.O.T.]

Am I really the only person besides a pack of retard fundies who thinks it's stupid to represent a people's god as being a dude from a completely different tribe of people? It's very much like making a movie about Ifa and having Robin Williams play Ogun, or having a woman play the role of Jesus.

Not worth forming an organized boycott over, but still, not only culturally and historically wrong but it also seems deliberately disrespectful. I mean, after all the years of protesting that American indians have done to get Hollywood to cast indians in roles portraying indians, it would be pretty hypocritical of me not to recognize that casting a black man in the role of a european god of white-skinned people is a blatant appeal to the PC left, unless there is some historical evidence that Heimdall was once depicted with dark skin. (There are cross-racial deities in some religions, so it's not completely unheard of.)

THANK YOU

         how about Jack Black as MLK. No problem. Christina Ricci as Malcolm X. makes perfect sense to me.
         Chuck Norris as Genghis Khan. seamless.

NOW,

         Oprah as Hitler. that's what i'm talking about.

[Don Coyote]

Who would play Churchill?

[Requia ☣]

I seem to remember in a similar cultural dilemma in DC Comics, many years ago, I think it was in a Swamp Thing/Animal Man crossover special, (When Swampy was being hunted by the Parliament of Trees) and  it was revealed that the African Elemental Guardian of the Green (Or some such bunkum) "Bwana Beast" when he took his Helmet off, was actually *Gasp* a white man! 
I think it was the one where there was a City of Great Apes, calling a "Dum Dum" of all the Apes, (Even Magilla Gorilla was there) and Swampy was drawn in on the Green, as were many other minor DC Characters.  (Like Animal Man and Bwana Beast) Pretty sure it was Alan Moore who wrote it too.

Pre 90s DC is hilariously racist.  The best is one of the minor comics had a 'Japanese' guy with white skin and red-brown hair.

[E.O.T.]

I seem to remember in a similar cultural dilemma in DC Comics, many years ago, I think it was in a Swamp Thing/Animal Man crossover special, (When Swampy was being hunted by the Parliament of Trees) and  it was revealed that the African Elemental Guardian of the Green (Or some such bunkum) "Bwana Beast" when he took his Helmet off, was actually *Gasp* a white man! 
I think it was the one where there was a City of Great Apes, calling a "Dum Dum" of all the Apes, (Even Magilla Gorilla was there) and Swampy was drawn in on the Green, as were many other minor DC Characters.  (Like Animal Man and Bwana Beast) Pretty sure it was Alan Moore who wrote it too.

Pre 90s DC is hilariously racist.  The best is one of the minor comics had a 'Japanese' guy with white skin and red-brown hair.

THAT SAID

          , marvel comics, under the helm of STAN the man still remains to be way ahead of all things irl. Powerful and key roles were(are) given to youth, women, non-"whites", physically disabled, "short" people and even canadians. hell, even mutants.

[BadBeast]

Am I really the only person besides a pack of retard fundies who thinks it's stupid to represent a people's god as being a dude from a completely different tribe of people? It's very much like making a movie about Ifa and having Robin Williams play Ogun, or having a woman play the role of Jesus.

Not worth forming an organized boycott over, but still, not only culturally and historically wrong but it also seems deliberately disrespectful. I mean, after all the years of protesting that American indians have done to get Hollywood to cast indians in roles portraying indians, it would be pretty hypocritical of me not to recognize that casting a black man in the role of a european god of white-skinned people is a blatant appeal to the PC left, unless there is some historical evidence that Heimdall was once depicted with dark skin. (There are cross-racial deities in some religions, so it's not completely unheard of.)

THANK YOU

         how about Jack Black as MLK. No problem. Christina Ricci as Malcolm X. makes perfect sense to me.
         Chuck Norris as Genghis Khan. seamless.

NOW,

         Oprah as Hitler. that's what i'm talking about.

Don't mean to be inanely pedantic here, but I'm sure it was Sean Connery as Ghengis Khan.
Charlton Heston as Moses, (also as God himself, I believe) And Robert Powell as the definitive Jesus Christ.

[E.O.T.]

Am I really the only person besides a pack of retard fundies who thinks it's stupid to represent a people's god as being a dude from a completely different tribe of people? It's very much like making a movie about Ifa and having Robin Williams play Ogun, or having a woman play the role of Jesus.

Not worth forming an organized boycott over, but still, not only culturally and historically wrong but it also seems deliberately disrespectful. I mean, after all the years of protesting that American indians have done to get Hollywood to cast indians in roles portraying indians, it would be pretty hypocritical of me not to recognize that casting a black man in the role of a european god of white-skinned people is a blatant appeal to the PC left, unless there is some historical evidence that Heimdall was once depicted with dark skin. (There are cross-racial deities in some religions, so it's not completely unheard of.)

THANK YOU

         how about Jack Black as MLK. No problem. Christina Ricci as Malcolm X. makes perfect sense to me.
         Chuck Norris as Genghis Khan. seamless.

NOW,

         Oprah as Hitler. that's what i'm talking about.

Don't mean to be inanely pedantic here, but I'm sure it was Sean Connery as Ghengis Khan.
Charlton Heston as Moses, (also as God himself, I believe) And Robert Powell as the definitive Jesus Christ.

YOU MAY BE

          but Sean Connery can do anything. Charlton Heston was just an epic mistake gone mad. and if robert powell hadn't played jesus, it would have been Agha Ali. and even given these things, "jews" and "whites" somewhat look similar. and remember, hollywood can only work with 15 actors and actresses at a time.

[BadBeast]

I seem to remember in a similar cultural dilemma in DC Comics, many years ago, I think it was in a Swamp Thing/Animal Man crossover special, (When Swampy was being hunted by the Parliament of Trees) and  it was revealed that the African Elemental Guardian of the Green (Or some such bunkum) "Bwana Beast" when he took his Helmet off, was actually *Gasp* a white man! 
I think it was the one where there was a City of Great Apes, calling a "Dum Dum" of all the Apes, (Even Magilla Gorilla was there) and Swampy was drawn in on the Green, as were many other minor DC Characters.  (Like Animal Man and Bwana Beast) Pretty sure it was Alan Moore who wrote it too.

Pre 90s DC is hilariously racist.  The best is one of the minor comics had a 'Japanese' guy with white skin and red-brown hair.

THAT SAID

          , marvel comics, under the helm of STAN the man still remains to be way ahead of all things irl. Powerful and key roles were(are) given to youth, women, non-"whites", physically disabled, "short" people and even canadians. hell, even mutants.

Fleetway's 2000AD has been fielding Mutants, Ethnic Minorities, Transvestite Robots, Gay Exorcists, Crippled Spacemen, Pagan Sun Kings, Dwarves, Albinos, and even Women, all alongside the Totalitarian yet dispassionately and consistently fair contradiction that is Judge Dredd,  since about 1977. And not as concession characters either, but it's mainstay.  So Borag Thung, Earthling! (jus' sayin)  

[E.O.T.]

I seem to remember in a similar cultural dilemma in DC Comics, many years ago, I think it was in a Swamp Thing/Animal Man crossover special, (When Swampy was being hunted by the Parliament of Trees) and  it was revealed that the African Elemental Guardian of the Green (Or some such bunkum) "Bwana Beast" when he took his Helmet off, was actually *Gasp* a white man! 
I think it was the one where there was a City of Great Apes, calling a "Dum Dum" of all the Apes, (Even Magilla Gorilla was there) and Swampy was drawn in on the Green, as were many other minor DC Characters.  (Like Animal Man and Bwana Beast) Pretty sure it was Alan Moore who wrote it too.

Pre 90s DC is hilariously racist.  The best is one of the minor comics had a 'Japanese' guy with white skin and red-brown hair.

THAT SAID

          , marvel comics, under the helm of STAN the man still remains to be way ahead of all things irl. Powerful and key roles were(are) given to youth, women, non-"whites", physically disabled, "short" people and even canadians. hell, even mutants.

Fleetway's 2000AD has been fielding Mutants, Ethnic Minorities, Transvestite Robots, Gay Exorcists, Crippled Spacemen, Pagan Sun Kings, Dwarves, Albinos, and even Women, all alongside the Totalitarian yet dispassionately and consistently fair contradiction that is Judge Dredd,  since about 1977. And not as concession characters either, but it's mainstay.  So Borag Thung, Earthling! (jus' sayin)  

YES

            but i'm talking about the titles he started in the early & mid nineteen sixty's. which are still progressive. 2000ad is more science fictiony in general, which always breaks all the rules, and fleetway was only possible because of its predecessors.

POINT BEING

            popular culture, and comics have always been centric/ racist (i.e. requia's DC example) and Heimdall being black may actually be absurd and a deliberate reaction to the decades of stuff like "men at war" - but stan's creations are just simply way ahead of their time.

[Faust]

Sure look at the xmen they started as an analog for black peoples struggle and evolved into being all those who are persecuted that's going back to the fifties or sixties. Kirby and Lee were very progressive for thief time.

I'd argue that a proper actor should be able to play any role regardless of race or gender (Hellen mirriam is playing the wizard prospero in the new tempest.

That being said marvel don't hire actors they hire stars, so maybe that's not applicable.

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

I'm relieved that the title of the thread does not involve Valrhona.