Gabby Gifford (AZ rep) shot

[Jenne]

I just made fun of him on his thread.

It went right over his head.

Yeah, I just rarely get into it with these types of folks.  They think anything left of center IS the far-left.  And they really have no clue.  The fact they think Obama's a socialist (most of them, and by THEM I don't mean this particular group, of course) is a big indicator of where their rubric is skewed.

[LMNO]

It makes me wonder if the "Bush = Nazi" people were just as silly.  I admit personal bias, and that may have skewed my perceptions somewhat.  I usually played it off as "rhetoric", and that no one really believed Bush was a proponent of National Socialism. 

But I often overestimate human intelligence.

[BadBeast]

I just made fun of him on his thread.

It went right over his head.

Say for instance, Oswald wasn't murdered by Ruby, and had won a not guilty due to insanity hearing. The implications of that, "It therefore takes a sane man to try to assassinate a President".
If he fits the"Lone Nut" profile too well, he's innocent. (Or Dead) Methinks they're going to have their "Pound of flesh" with this one, and the Circus will just get bigger and bigger.
Maybe it really was down to Palin's Voodoo Cross Hair's. (Just out of interest, who else did she do?)

[AFK]

To me, the difference is that politicians are actually getting into the fray now, or at least, getting into it more prominently.  Certainly back in the Bush days there were public figures who probably said some pretty incendiary things about Bush.  I would imagine someone like Michael Moore, maybe Spike Lee, Barbara Streisand, I don't know, people like that.  But I don't really remember a lefty Sarah Palin or a lefty Sharron Angle out there suggesting things like 2nd Amendment remedies.  (I could be wrong but I'm not recalling anything like that).

So that's the big difference for me and why I can't accept the equivalence the right is trying to draw to the Bush days.  For me, it's a totally different ball game when the elected public servants decide to wade into the mud.  

[Cramulus]

Yeah, good point. I recall the really foamy anti-bush crowd saying they wanted him impeached, never assassinated.

[Jenne]

I just look at what the Right says about the Left, and it's the same as what the Left says about the Right:

They're extreme.  No moderates left.

They hate freedom.

They're consumed by hate.

Seems both sides think the same about the other.  To me, it's the polarization that SEEMS to be getting worse, the lack of ability to see a meeting of the minds, etc.  How far did the Dems take it to the wall for Bush et al when they had Congress?  Did they make a statement, in their leadership, that their #1 priority would be to make sure he failed?  Not sure about that.

So when the populace at large sees the "leaders" of their platform pushing forth a more polarized agenda, seeing less worth in judging others with non-prejudicial means...seems to me there's going to be more attraction to the violent rhetoric, less peacable turns of mind and thought on a general level.

Not surprising though, and extremely dismaying, that they jump to "Oh this guy's fulfilling a LEFTIST agenda in shooting a Democrat!" right off the bat.  Jesus fuck.  And I thought *I* was a jaded bitch!

[Precious Moments Zalgo]

I just made fun of him on his thread.

It went right over his head.

Yeah, I just rarely get into it with these types of folks.  They think anything left of center-right IS the far-left.  And they really have no clue.  The fact they think Obama's a socialist (most of them, and by THEM I don't mean this particular group, of course) is a big indicator of where their rubric is skewed.

Fixed.

If by "this particular group", you mean the people on that facebook thread, then yes, most of them do believe that Obama is a red-flag-waving, Marx-worshiping, class-warfare-stoking, anti-business socialist who is trying to destroy America on purpose.

[BadBeast]

To me, the difference is that politicians are actually getting into the fray now, or at least, getting into it more prominently.  Certainly back in the Bush days there were public figures who probably said some pretty incendiary things about Bush.  I would imagine someone like Michael Moore, maybe Spike Lee, Barbara Streisand, I don't know, people like that.  But I don't really remember a lefty Sarah Palin or a lefty Sharron Angle out there suggesting things like 2nd Amendment remedies.  (I could be wrong but I'm not recalling anything like that).

So that's the big difference for me and why I can't accept the equivalence the right is trying to draw to the Bush days.  For me, it's a totally different ball game when the elected public servants decide to wade into the mud.  

I think that now the "Political Celebrity" (eg,  Bonio) angle has been whored till the Tit not only squeaks, but howls in outrage and indignant fury, Politicians have been almost forced into taking a Political standpoint on actual Political Issues, and some of them just aren't up to the job. Others are, but they'd hate to be labelled as some kind of fucking Radical, so they just shut up, and suck it. By the time you reach any position where you have a voice, you've got so many "favours" to repay to the people who put you there, any ethical or moral considerations you may have had to begin with, generally get flushed down the Shitter along with your integrity, discretion, and any self respect you managed to hold onto. Entertaining enough  though. Like N.C.I.S .      

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Most Liberals, in my opinion, tend to be third circuit* focused... That means that they probably tend to think a bit more about what they are going to say and how it will be perceived. Conservatives, on the other hand, tend towards more second circuit thinking, meaning that they tend more toward the peeing on trees, beating their chests and generally trying to guard their territory.. and that is often done with threats and noise.

I don't doubt for a minute that there were plenty of lefty loon that would have loved to see GWB shot down. However, they aren't about to go beating on their chests screaming. On the conservative side though, it becomes very interesting to look at their actions through the lens of territorial primates. After all, carrying guns in public seems an awful lot like an animal baring its teeth to show strength and scare off aggressors.

So, IMO, its likely that many Liberals would have loved to see Conservative X shot down, but they're not about to say such a thing in public because words are important to them. Also, an impeachment would be a more satisfying end to a political enemy, simply because it would be a condemnation of the opponents position/actions. In second circuit thinking... there is a threat that must be dealt with and the means for dealing with that threat are less important than dealing with the threat.

So... if this is an issue of perception... if the conservative people are more 'second circuit' based... how does a country move forward and reduce the impact that such thinking has on the behavior of the nation? Is it possible? Is it an issue of integrating their concerns, validating their fears and resolving them... or is it an issue of screaming and throwing poop back at them?

Also, the more I read about this guy, the more it appears that he was just a crazy person. Either way, it certainly doesn't excuse the vitriol or cross-hair graphics.



* Using the 8 circuit model of consciousness here

[The Good Reverend Roger]

This is what the American people demanded...An unbridgeabe divide, so that they can believe that they can hate with God™ on their side.

What I find hysterical is that they honestly believe that Nazism is a far-left ideology.

[AFK]

The real fun is going to start when they have to replace Giffords.  I find it highly unlikely, given where her injury is, that she'll be able to return to Congress.  What is the law in Arizona?  Do they do a special election?  Is a replacement appointed? 

[The Good Reverend Roger]

The real fun is going to start when they have to replace Giffords.  I find it highly unlikely, given where her injury is, that she'll be able to return to Congress.  What is the law in Arizona?  Do they do a special election?  Is a replacement appointed? 

As long as she's alive, IIRC, the seat is hers.  There's precedent.

[Cramulus]

[Phox]

What I find hysterical is that they honestly believe that Nazism is a far-left ideology.

Aren't they just a riot? 

[hooplala]

What I find hysterical is that they honestly believe that Nazism is a far-left ideology.

This.  One of those fucks in the Facebook discussion actually said "His favorite books were the Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf...Not exactly books you find on the conservative reading list." - so he thinks a lot of leftie hippies are sitting around reading Mein Kampf... I guess the hippies I went to school with were just poseurs, they were usually reading Steal This Book.