THE CANCER KILLING PDCOM - Blow-by-Blow Coverage of Democratic Primary Race

[AFK]

Except that the hopeless are apathetic cockweevils who do nothing but shit on anyone who dares to dream big. The only thing hopelessness threatens is the will to achieve anything beyond the status quo.

And, if I may offer a less directly assaultive rebuttal to this nonsense about the "politics of hope oppressing people," it is not that the current "hope" guy is saying "let's do things by the book one more time and hope we get a better outcome." He's saying "this doesn't work and we need to change the mindset that's been keeping this country in the shitter for 50 years."

It isn't hope and faith in some candidate that drives my support for this mainstream guy, it's the recognition that literally millions of people are involved because of him that would otherwise be over their heads in apathy and distraction. It isn't like every one of them is ready to stand up and revolt, but it's better than it would be without them. It's not an expression of faith in the system, it's an expression of dissatisfaction with the system and a demand that it be changed to suit the will of the people.

It's all really idealistic and all that, and I know that optimism is a synonym of stupidity among some groups. And it all sounds like a bunch of people signing on for a campaign that's duped them into following the status quo by doing a good job of making empty rhetoric from 200 years ago sound like a viable modern political platform. And, maybe it will fail -- probably it will fail. But absent some widespread urge to start blowing shit up, this is the best there is.

So to the hopeless, I say when you do something real that goes beyond a bunch of Nihilist bullshit that has no place outside of a shitty independent film about the futility of trying, or when you prove that past 500 years' advances in human dignity and equality were going to happen anyway without anybody working for it, then I'll start to see hopelessness as a threat to the establishment.

Until then, all I see is a bunch of self-defeated quitters who choose the easy way out and claim the moral high ground with empty justifications.

[Cain]

STFU VEX!  UR VOTING IN THE OLD ONES, AND YOUR ONLY REWARD FOR YOUR SERVICE IS TO HAVE YOUR SOUL EATEN FIRST!

[tyrannosaurus vex]

You're right. I apologize. I guess instead of voting, I'll just turn myself into the police for hanging out with terrorists who oppose the system.

What are all your home addresses again?

[Cain]

 

I'll remember not to bother joking again.  Jokes, even about politics are after all, SRS BUSINESS.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

You're right. I apologize. I guess instead of voting, I'll just turn myself into the police for hanging out with terrorists who oppose the system.

What are all your home addresses again?

1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500

[Roo]

Except that the hopeless are apathetic cockweevils who do nothing but shit on anyone who dares to dream big. The only thing hopelessness threatens is the will to achieve anything beyond the status quo.

And, if I may offer a less directly assaultive rebuttal to this nonsense about the "politics of hope oppressing people," it is not that the current "hope" guy is saying "let's do things by the book one more time and hope we get a better outcome." He's saying "this doesn't work and we need to change the mindset that's been keeping this country in the shitter for 50 years."

It isn't hope and faith in some candidate that drives my support for this mainstream guy, it's the recognition that literally millions of people are involved because of him that would otherwise be over their heads in apathy and distraction. It isn't like every one of them is ready to stand up and revolt, but it's better than it would be without them. It's not an expression of faith in the system, it's an expression of dissatisfaction with the system and a demand that it be changed to suit the will of the people.

It's all really idealistic and all that, and I know that optimism is a synonym of stupidity among some groups. And it all sounds like a bunch of people signing on for a campaign that's duped them into following the status quo by doing a good job of making empty rhetoric from 200 years ago sound like a viable modern political platform. And, maybe it will fail -- probably it will fail. But absent some widespread urge to start blowing shit up, this is the best there is.

So to the hopeless, I say when you do something real that goes beyond a bunch of Nihilist bullshit that has no place outside of a shitty independent film about the futility of trying, or when you prove that past 500 years' advances in human dignity and equality were going to happen anyway without anybody working for it, then I'll start to see hopelessness as a threat to the establishment.

Until then, all I see is a bunch of self-defeated quitters who choose the easy way out and claim the moral high ground with empty justifications.

Alright, Vex, fair enough.

But what are all these people involved in? What is Obama offering in place of what isn't working? What does he want to 'change the mindset' to?

All I see from him is a bunch of empty promises. All I hear are nice little sound clips that sound great and make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside, but fail to provide anything in the way of a plan or a direction to go in. I really get the impression that if, by some miracle, Obama wins, all that talk of change is going to disappear before he takes the oath of office. Because I don't think Obama, or any of his supporters really want Change. Change is scary. What a lot of people really want is to keep living the way they've been living. Driving their nice cars, having vacations, talking around the water cooler. Being American. Buying the bullshit.   


Hope allows us to keep on keeping on when the going gets tough. I get that. But sometimes giving up hope is what allows you to realize that it doesn't have to be so damned tough. Giving up hope means letting go of the illusion that everything is ok. And I think that's something that most Americans do not want to face. The scariest thing in the entire world is the belief or feeling that 'I am not ok'. When that happens to people, they tend to go at least a little crazy. But the thing is...'I am not ok' doesn't ever magically turn into 'I am ok.' You have to admit that things are not ok, before you can take the steps that lead to things being ok.

[AFK]

All I see from him is a bunch of empty promises. All I hear are nice little sound clips that sound great and make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside, but fail to provide anything in the way of a plan or a direction to go in. I really get the impression that if, by some miracle, Obama wins, all that talk of change is going to disappear before he takes the oath of office. Because I don't think Obama, or any of his supporters really want Change. Change is scary. What a lot of people really want is to keep living the way they've been living. Driving their nice cars, having vacations, talking around the water cooler. Being American. Buying the bullshit.   

[citation needed]

Do you get your news from Fuxed News?  Because I hear this same talking point from that crowd.  "All style and no substance."  Have you watched any of the debates?  He has given specifics about his health care plan, about his economic plans, about his foreign policy plans.  It's one thing to disagree with his policy stances, it's quite another to accuse him of having none, especially if you haven't really been bothering to pay attention when he actually lays them out. 

[tyrannosaurus vex]

I'll remember not to bother joking again.  Jokes, even about politics are after all, SRS BUSINESS.

my reply to you was actually a joke too.

Alright, Vex, fair enough.

But what are all these people involved in? What is Obama offering in place of what isn't working? What does he want to 'change the mindset' to?

All I see from him is a bunch of empty promises. All I hear are nice little sound clips that sound great and make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside, but fail to provide anything in the way of a plan or a direction to go in. I really get the impression that if, by some miracle, Obama wins, all that talk of change is going to disappear before he takes the oath of office. Because I don't think Obama, or any of his supporters really want Change. Change is scary. What a lot of people really want is to keep living the way they've been living. Driving their nice cars, having vacations, talking around the water cooler. Being American. Buying the bullshit.   


Hope allows us to keep on keeping on when the going gets tough. I get that. But sometimes giving up hope is what allows you to realize that it doesn't have to be so damned tough. Giving up hope means letting go of the illusion that everything is ok. And I think that's something that most Americans do not want to face. The scariest thing in the entire world is the belief or feeling that 'I am not ok'. When that happens to people, they tend to go at least a little crazy. But the thing is...'I am not ok' doesn't ever magically turn into 'I am ok.' You have to admit that things are not ok, before you can take the steps that lead to things being ok.

The specifics are there. Read the man's website or listen to his speeches, instead of assuming the Media isn't feeding you bullshit about him being "all talk." If you want to you can also follow his entire career from being a community organizer to this current campaign, and you might find out that the guy not only has an agenda but has the ability to get shit done.

I am 100% in line with the idea that the system gives us no real choices and no real change. But the SYSTEM hasn't chosen this candidate -- for the first time in probably 75 years, this is a guy who is where he is in spite of the system, because actual people have put him there. Even if I disagree with some of his positions, I will vote for him because I'll support anything that calls the supremacy of the status quo into doubt.

[Cramulus]

Vex, you are slowly winning me over into your strange Obama cult.

For now, I will allot  him an additional face on my Die of Random Voting.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

OR, it could be a two-man con...

After all, why would Obama not be a smart choice for the Shadowy Maintainers of the Status Quo?  I mean if we give the Shadow Government theory any legs at all, then we must suspect all candidates, and all politicians equally.

1. We bring a dipshit to power, use a 'national crises' to consolidate and gain power under the dipshit.
2. By the end of the first four years, a lot of people will be unhappy. After eight years, a helluva lot of people will be very unhappy.
3. We raise up a Charismatic and Populist Visionary that decries the dipshit.
4. A grassroots movement made up of pissed off people swell to support the Charismatic candidate.
5. The candidate gets in office, everyone loves him, everyone forgets about the wiretapping, the water boarding, the sidestepping of FISA etc.
6. The charismatic President can then continue to consolidate power to the office, either for their later use... or for the next President.

Of course, we could drop McCain in the same scenario... who better than the Maverick to change direction (or maintain the direction while everyone is looking at how Maverick he is).

Of course, in my personal opinion, its unlikely that the shadow government is anything more than the subconscious actions of greedy humans... or its the Illuminati in which case were already fucked.  

[Cain]

I kept saying that about Ron Paul.  It drove the Paulbots insane.

[AFK]

Of course McCain has pretty much disavowed his Maverick status.

[Cramulus]

My intuition about this particular Conspiracy^TM is that the two-man con ruse is this:

even if some magical super-president fixes the health care, foreign policy, education, revises the patriot act, and fixes all that dross that's wrong with this country,

most people will still be miserable serfs living in bureaucracy. Comfortable, but dependant on society's poisonous, dessicated teat. Engaged, but only in disinterest. Perhaps temporarily satisfied with the taste of carrot, but still fearing that damn stick. Not just unable, but unwilling to think for themselves or able to navigate the byzantine labyrinth of successful modern living.



...

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

My intuition about this particular Conspiracy^TM is that the two-man con ruse is this:

even if some magical super-president fixes the health care, foreign policy, education, revises the patriot act, and fixes all that dross that's wrong with this country,

most people will still be miserable serfs living in bureaucracy. Comfortable, but dependant on society's poisonous, dessicated teat. Engaged, but only in disinterest. Perhaps temporarily satisfied with the taste of carrot, but still fearing that damn stick. Not just unable, but unwilling to think for themselves or able to navigate the byzantine labyrinth of successful modern living.



...

And then the next President will fuck it all up again... (See: Clinton's Balanced Budget)

[AFK]

See, the thing with the "Hope" and "Change" meme is that I think many are blowing that out of proportion in many ways.  We all know that the U.S. Government is a huge lumbering beast that cannot turn on a dime.  So "Change" has to be incremental.  But even if "Change" means advancing in say 3 or 4 increments, at least it is progress away from where we've been stuck.  So while it is short-sided to just claim that "Hope" and "Change" are empty promises, it is equally wrong to expect too much from it.  A calm and rational perspective needs to be maintained while entertaining these possibilities.