On the subject of FNORD

[Kai]

So you think there's something weak about my argument, but you're not willing to tell me what it is?

Well fuck you too.

More like, you just brought a whole new argument into this mess, that A) descriptors are rhetorical, and that B) that seems be a negative thing (not that I could call it negative cause that would be rhetoric). It just sorta pisses me off, makes me want to take it ad absurdum to eliminate all descriptors from our language till our conversations are bland uninteresting piles of blah. Might as well take all meaning out of language as well.

[Arafelis]

Take a look at the page I wrote tonight and reconsider, please.

[Kai]

Take a look at the page I wrote tonight and reconsider, please.

No, see, I get you're argument now. You think that persuasion is against the spirit of discordianism, and because the BIP is meant to be persuasive, you say its not a discordian document.

Or perhaps you just don't like it when people come out and say what they really mean instead of walking you round and round in circles (ie puzzles), which frankly is just another game of "Eris May Not Want You" (aka the Parable of the Sacred Bull).

Persuasion is an inescapable fact of human existence, just as the use of power (Cf. Foucault, Green's Laws of Power), its a part of language. Calling something not discordian because it uses descriptors and persuasive language is irrelevant. You might as well call a church service non-christian because they meet outdoors for service.

[Arafelis]

You think that persuasion is against the spirit of discordianism, and because the BIP is meant to be persuasive, you say its not a discordian document.

I explained what I meant, and that's not what I said.

Also on that page is a description of what does and does not constitute a straw man.  Peruse at your leisure.

[Kai]

You think that persuasion is against the spirit of discordianism, and because the BIP is meant to be persuasive, you say its not a discordian document.

I explained what I meant, and that's not what I said.

Also on that page is a description of what does and does not constitute a straw man.  Peruse at your leisure.

I simplified your argument because frankly its so damn convoluted that its a wonder I took the time to understand it at all. Rhetoric is just a fancy term for persuasive language. Fnord is just rhetoric which is intended to create obedience and complacency in the audience. Simplified, you have a problem with persuasive language, particularly that which is powerful.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

It's official.

 <--- This thread.

[Kai]

BTW, poor cohesion and structure of argument is a valid criticism, one I'm using with you now.

If I still don't understand, then the cards are on you to figure out where you went wrong.

[Arafelis]

Fnord is just rhetoric which is intended to create obedience and complacency in the audience.

No.

Fnord [is] a meta-term [for that] which elicits obedience and complacency in the audience.

Fnord can be rhetoric which is intended to create obedience and complacency in the audience.

Yes.

Simplified, you have a problem with persuasive language, particularly that which is powerful.

No.

Simplified, you have a problem with some instances of persuasive language, particularly that which is powerful.

Yes.

And this is in conflict with any of the three points which we established earlier in this long discussion.

No.

This has any substantive bearing on points 1) or 3) at all.

No.

[Sepia]

We were very drunk but we were filled with the best drugs our money could buy as we sat in the park and drank the cheap beer and saw the sky change colour, saw the women leap over to us as we daydreamed we were still working nine to five but the truth was there, here, in our face. We were seeing everything in spidervision. Extremely high resolution and highly detailed but the colours were all wrong and we saw the tits we wanted to lick but we were cockblocked by their minds and souls as we felt it would be like digging up a grave, finding your own grandmother and fucking her to tenacious d. There was something in our souls and in our systems that forbade us to eat the frozen foie gras or fuck that little rabbit nostril, fuck, couldn't have been older than fifteen.

Then, we wake up from the drugs, we wake up from the alcohol and we wake up for the work. We see the heart of the world wrapping it around itself, we see the ancient beetle god down in old egypt, rolling a ball of shit across the desert as if it should have been the sun and we see our waiters and waitresses and even though the men usually have nice asses but flabby bellies and while the women usually have small tits, they also have quite perfect asses and their faces are not pretty but interesting. I've always loved my tits small so it's a good line of work for me. The first thing they told when I began doing the dishes was that you shouldn't shit where you eat but if there's something time has shown me is that you shouldn't eat where you shit. It's simple, banal and stupid, but doesn't it work? Isn't what you're doing shit? Don't you feel down and want an ego boost from somewhere?

We're all depressed here. This is another form of control. This is the black iron prison but this is also a place of power. When here, you're at the hand of the jailors of the black iron prison and you are that because you believe the same as they do, as we sometimes do. You believe the black iron prison to be true, like we do. We see the icons and we see the institutions and when we realize they're just people something in our childhood dies on the inside and we harden and we turn the lock and there's propaganda from left and right what to do when you're out, there's no going out man it's just a system within a system within it's like a caleidoscope man, you take enough of this acid and you'll see the world like it truly is, a caleidoscope

The one-eyed man is proclaimed a king to lead the blind, why? He is not at all like them.

[Arafelis]

The one-eyed man is proclaimed a king to lead the blind, why? He is not at all like them.

In the version I heard, he was locked up.  Kept saying he saw things.

I did see the other question.  Yes.  And also no.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

The one-eyed man is proclaimed a king to lead the blind, why? He is not at all like them.

In the version I heard, he was locked up.  Kept saying he saw things.

In the version I heard, they yanked his eye out and distributed it evenly among the masses.

[Dove]

It's official.

 <--- This thread.

You have 35,000+ posts, but I haven't found one worth reading.  You seem to only come here for drama.

On the other hand, here's a guy with 83 posts, and almost every one I've read has been fresh, interesting, and intellectually provocative for the audience.

Thanks Arafelis.

[Arafelis]

You have 35,000+ posts, but I haven't found one worth reading.  You seem to only come here for drama.

On the other hand, here's a guy with 83 posts, and almost every one I've read has been fresh, interesting, and intellectually provocative for the audience.

Thanks Arafelis.

I won't pretend I'm not flattered.  Thank you!

But the case could be made that I'm here for drama too.

As far as I can tell, TiGgeRR's never stopped asking folks to kill him.  He's living by his word.

[Cain]

You have 35,000+ posts, but I haven't found one worth reading. 

I know I shouldn't really come down hard on you, since you are brand new, but you might want to do some basic research before making such assertions.  Because if you haven't found one worth reading from the person most people consider the best writer on this site, well then...

[hooplala]

It's official.

 <--- This thread.

You have 35,000+ posts, but I haven't found one worth reading.  You seem to only come here for drama.

On the other hand, here's a guy with 83 posts, and almost every one I've read has been fresh, interesting, and intellectually provocative for the audience.

Thanks Arafelis.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and propose that Arafelis and Dove know each other IRL.