On the Subject of "Muslim Massacre"

[BabylonHoruv]

Wow. well for starters, let me say that anyone who even considers an upper limit to human stupidity will be proven wrong by the sheer ingenuity of idiocy so quickly they ought to be held responsible for creating the mere opportunity for the Force of Nature known as The Dumb to demonstrate itself.

Having said that, I can relate to the OP.

I remember seeing some people play GTA:San Andreas, and was impressed by the realism as the player pulled/punched someone out of their car and realized "hey that actually isnt very nice".

Not that I think it should be prohibited or something, but yeah, it did affect me in some way.

Just to pull a hypothetical example. What if videogame gfx become so utterly realistic, it's indistinguishable from a snuff? Would that be bad? It would certainly make me sick, personally. And depending on the context, perhaps indeed a bit wary about the person enjoying that sort of thing.

I think that'd be awesome.  Now if we could integrate really realistic sex too.  I could be the serial killer I've always dreamed of being, without the risk of jail, or, y'know, hurting real people.

[Thurnez Isa]

To be honest I think the rape simulation game (more of an interactive DVD) was a little worse - Stockholm: An Exploration of True Love
Where you kidnap a woman, and force her to fall in love with you using psychological torture

Of course the creator tried to call it an exploration into stockholm syndrome or some other crap...
there has been several movies and books, ect. exploring very similar worlds - but none of these are interactive by nature
and lets be honest this is just an excuse for sexual deviants to interactively pretend to dominate women

...just as im sure your Muslim game is just an excuse to participate in the kilingl people who we're told to blame for pretty much everything

I don't know the psychological effects of this, but I'm willing to be its kind of negative

[Cait M. R.]

Thurnez, great timing. Today in that thread, Sigvatr had the wonderful idea of making a game to rape small children at a McDonalds.

This person is harmless, right? Not despicable, just an "artist". Right?

And it's totally not okay for him to, say, be tied to the front of a derailed freight train heading for a forest fire, right?

[Thurnez Isa]

You guys are giving him a lot of attention

which he probably really likes

I stay out of "artistic" discussions because they never end well. Maybe this guy is legitimately exploring a darker side of humanity, and maybe it is important.
There is an participation element that is more apparent then other media, books, movies, comics, ect.

But I'm very much on the fence on this issue, thought I do find it interesting that more and more the object of identification in many games is not one of a virtue, or even moral ambiguity, but this identifying with a perpetrator of an almost fratlike violence, more often against women, or minorities. Something that's also crept into horror movies, especially with these almost sensational torture porn films - which might I add are much more water downed then the more grimy almost poetic gorefests of underground films of the 80's (ie Psycho Girls, Guinea Pig 2, or 5) and definitely invoke a less negative reaction in the viewer.

I tend to agree, sympathize with your position, and definatly aggree with it more when there is an attempt to commercialize
but on the other hand human fantasies can be dark, very dark

[Arafelis]

But I'm very much on the fence on this issue, thought I do find it interesting that more and more the object of identification in many games is not one of a virtue, or even moral ambiguity, but this identifying with a perpetrator of an almost fratlike violence, more often against women, or minorities.

It is interesting, isn't it?  The more the traditionally powerful feel like they're "losing control" of culture, the more mainstream their revenge fantasies become.

but on the other hand human fantasies can be dark, very dark

Agreed, and so I guess I agree with the idea of some kind of artistic merit in this work.  But I don't think that means I need to like it, or that anyone else commenting here is obliged to feel any less than outraged at it.  (Nor do I think that you're suggesting that they shouldn't.  I'm just being more explicit.)

[Cait M. R.]

You guys are giving him a lot of attention

which he probably really likes

I stay out of "artistic" discussions because they never end well. Maybe this guy is legitimately exploring a darker side of humanity, and maybe it is important.
There is an participation element that is more apparent then other media, books, movies, comics, ect.

But I'm very much on the fence on this issue, thought I do find it interesting that more and more the object of identification in many games is not one of a virtue, or even moral ambiguity, but this identifying with a perpetrator of an almost fratlike violence, more often against women, or minorities. Something that's also crept into horror movies, especially with these almost sensational torture porn films - which might I add are much more water downed then the more grimy almost poetic gorefests of underground films of the 80's (ie Psycho Girls, Guinea Pig 2, or 5) and definitely invoke a less negative reaction in the viewer.

I tend to agree, sympathize with your position, and definatly aggree with it more when there is an attempt to commercialize
but on the other hand human fantasies can be dark, very dark

No, he's not. He's a 14 year old kid. He's stated that he does this shit to piss people off, in other words to be an insensitive cunt. This has no artistic merit. I tried to think up a good metaphor in the vein of "It has all the artistic merit of...", but there really isn't anything to compare. There's more art in flushing a toilet or stabbing your eyeball with a heroin syringe than in his garbage.