THE GREAT BOOK SLAUGHTER

[BadBeast]

101. The Communist Manifesto - Karl Marx                 Might as well add "Mien Kampf.

Actually I agree with you but for different reasons: It's boring.

A little quick to assume my reasons there Trigger,     (I'm sure Hitler cold have easily bored more than 6 million people to death with Mien Kampf) It's not because I'm Anti Communist particularly, just that any Political Manifesto hasn't really got any place on a list like this. They're not  Literature, simply big boring works of propaganda. Especially Marx's Communist Manifesto, having been a total failure everywhere it's been tried. Boring to read, boring to study as a political ideology, and unworkable in practice. It should be tossed in the same bin as Mao Tse Tung's "Little Red Book". (Also boring as fuck)

[Nephew Twiddleton]

101. The Communist Manifesto - Karl Marx                 Might as well add "Mien Kampf.

Actually I agree with you but for different reasons: It's boring.

A little quick to assume my reasons there Trigger,     (I'm sure Hitler cold have easily bored more than 6 million people to death with Mien Kampf) It's not because I'm Anti Communist particularly, just that any Political Manifesto hasn't really got any place on a list like this. They're not  Literature, simply big boring works of propaganda. Especially Marx's Communist Manifesto, having been a total failure everywhere it's been tried. Boring to read, boring to study as a political ideology, and unworkable in practice. It should be tossed in the same bin as Mao Tse Tung's "Little Red Book". (Also boring as fuck)

I misread you then, my bad.

[Suu]

Lord of the Flies must stay! 


I've never read all of Dune, but I liked what I did read, and I loved the film.

Surely you don't mean the 1984 version with Rock Superstar Sting as Feyd Rautha. That was horrible.

I do. I suppose you and I had to disagree on something, sometime. For awhile there i started to wonder.

The movie becomes intolerable after reading the novel. The only saving grace is Captain Picard riding a sandworm, with his skullet flapping in the wind. Now, the Sci-Fi Channel miniseries is awesome, and truer to the book.

Hmm. Maybe you're right. I haven't watched it in about 6 or 7 years, and I hadn't read any of the novel then. Haven't seen the miniseries. Will try to catch it sometime.

It's pretty good, and the actor who plays Leto Atreides doesn't have a ridiculous sounding and lispy voice.
And Paul has a decent hair cut.

Blight,
-Notices the important things in a screen adaption.

The film isn't accurate really, it's a fun watch though...AND THERE ARE NO WEIRDING MODULES IN THE BOOKS.

I have both Dune and Children of Dune from Sci-Fi, totally worth it.

[Suu]

101. The Communist Manifesto - Karl Marx                 Might as well add "Mien Kampf.

Actually I agree with you but for different reasons: It's boring.

A little quick to assume my reasons there Trigger,     (I'm sure Hitler cold have easily bored more than 6 million people to death with Mien Kampf) It's not because I'm Anti Communist particularly, just that any Political Manifesto hasn't really got any place on a list like this. They're not  Literature, simply big boring works of propaganda. Especially Marx's Communist Manifesto, having been a total failure everywhere it's been tried. Boring to read, boring to study as a political ideology, and unworkable in practice. It should be tossed in the same bin as Mao Tse Tung's "Little Red Book". (Also boring as fuck)

GODWIN'S LAW. AGAIN.

[BadBeast]

101. The Communist Manifesto - Karl Marx                 Might as well add "Mien Kampf.

Actually I agree with you but for different reasons: It's boring.

A little quick to assume my reasons there Trigger,     (I'm sure Hitler cold have easily bored more than 6 million people to death with Mien Kampf) It's not because I'm Anti Communist particularly, just that any Political Manifesto hasn't really got any place on a list like this. They're not  Literature, simply big boring works of propaganda. Especially Marx's Communist Manifesto, having been a total failure everywhere it's been tried. Boring to read, boring to study as a political ideology, and unworkable in practice. It should be tossed in the same bin as Mao Tse Tung's "Little Red Book". (Also boring as fuck)

GODWIN'S LAW. AGAIN.

Godwin was an Idea Nazi! 

[Jasper]

I feel the same way about holy books as I do about famous/infamous political manifestos.  For instance, sure the magna carta was probably important, but is it a great book? 

@Phox:  It's just that lots of people have done a "Top 100" books list, so I kind of take it for granted that means "Top 100 Books (That You Don't Know Already from the Top 100 Top 100 List)".

[Cain]

I feel the same way about holy books as I do about famous/infamous political manifestos.  For instance, sure the magna carta was probably important, but is it a great book?

Better than Atlas Shrugged.  Marginally.  The characters were more believable, even if the end product was not.  Hah, barons demanding everyone in the country be equal under the law, not just their own class?  Madness.  They'll want to move Parliament to Galt's Gulch next.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Also, to actually chime in on something.

The Constitution of USA is not a book. Also, it's very Amerocentric. I'm sure there are other, more obscure constitutions more deserving. Just because we have hegemony doesn't mean our Constitution is more worthy of reading.

[Jasper]

I feel the same way about holy books as I do about famous/infamous political manifestos.  For instance, sure the magna carta was probably important, but is it a great book?

Better than Atlas Shrugged.  Marginally.  The characters were more believable, even if the end product was not.  Hah, barons demanding everyone in the country be equal under the law, not just their own class?  Madness.  They'll want to move Parliament to Galt's Gulch next.

Haha!  I bet there's a lot of good unwritten satirical nonfiction novels along those lines.

[Phox]

@Phox:  It's just that lots of people have done a "Top 100" books list, so I kind of take it for granted that means "Top 100 Books (That You Don't Know Already from the Top 100 Top 100 List)".

You have a point. But our debate is moot since it's an opinion poll anyway. 

[Jasper]

Hush now, I just won an internet argument.  Don't spoil the moment.    

[Phox]

Hush now, I just won an internet argument.  Don't spoil the moment.    

[Placid Dingo]

bolding ones previously killed, striking through things i supect could be removed.

The Constitution Of the United States
1. The Tao Teh Ching
2. The Epic of Gilgamesh.
3 Beowulf.
4. The Koran (Translation of;)
The Bible. Significance is obvious, but i note that it gets frustrating to read at points.
5. Evasion - Anonymous
6. Flatland - Edward A Abbot. {Presently ressurected}
7. Hitchhikers' Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams
Watership Down - Richard Adams
8. The house of spirits -  Isabel Allende
9. Über Das Altern - Jean Amery.
10. The Skinner - Neil Asher
11. The Wasp Factory - Ian Banks
12. Giles Goat Boy - John Barth
13. Killing Aurora - Helen Barnes.
14. The Martian Chronicles - Ray Bradbury {Ressurected for further debate}
Farenheight 451 - Ray Bradbury.
15. The Ascent of Man - Bronowski
16. World War Z - Max Brooks
The Zombie Survival Guide - Max Brooks.
A short history of nearly everything - Bill Bryson.
17. The Master and Margarita - Bulgakov
18. A Clockwork Orange (uncut UK edition) - Anthony Burgess
19. The Myth of Sisyphus and The Stranger - Albert Camus
20. The Rebel - Albert Camus.
The Very Hungry Caterpillar - Eric Carle Great book, but probably doesn't belong on the final cut.
21. Alice In Wonderland/Alice through the Looking glass
Poker Without Cards - Howard Campbell.
22. Don Quixote - Cervantes
23. Cyteen by CJ Cherryh
24. Shogun - James Clavel
25. I am America and so can you - Stephen Colbert.
26. The Secret Agent - Joseph Conrad
If Democrats Had Any Brains, They'd Be Republicans - Ann Coulter
27. The Divine Comedy - Dante
28. On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life - Charles Darwin
The Selfish Gene - Richard Dawkins
29. Anti-Oedipus - Deleuze and Guattari
30. A Thousand Plateaus - Deleuze and Guattari.
31. Mao II - Don Delillo
32. Breaking the Spell - Daniel Dennett
33. Culture Jamming: Hacking, Slashing and Sniping in the Empire of Signs - Mark Dery
Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep - Phillip K Dick
34. We Can Remember it for you Wholesale - Philip k Dick
35. Ubik - Phillip K Dick.
36. Notes From the Underground - Dostoevsky
Crime and Punishment - Dostoevsky
Foucalt's Pendulum - Umberto Eco
37. Schild's Ladder - Greg Egan
38. Distress - Greg Egan.
39. A Contract with God, and Other Tenement Stories - Will Eisner
American Psycho - Bret Easton Ellis
40. Surely you're joking Mr. Feynmann - Richard Feynman
41. The Golden Bough-  Sir James Frazer
42. American Gods - Neil Gaiman
43. Sandman- Neil Gaiman
44. Neuromancer - W. Gibson
45. Pattern Recognition - W. Gibson
46. Chaos - James Gleick
47. Lord of the Flies - William Golding I Like this one and it seems to have been the most debated of all so far. It has origins in subverting the style of 'Boys Own' fiction, and that enderas me to it.
48. The 48 Laws of Power- Robert Greene.
The Magicians - by Lev Grossman
49. Rules for Writers - Diana Hacker
50. The Raw Shark Texts- Steven Hall
51. The Secret Teachings of all Ages Manly.P.Hall
52. American Fascism - Christ Hedges
53. Catch 22 - Joseph Heller
Starship Troopers - Robert Heinlein
Stranger in a Strange land by Robert Heinlein
54. Moon is a Harsh Mistress - Robert Heinlein
Dune - Frank Herbert
Steppenwolf - Herman Hesse
55. Siddatha - Herman Hesse
56. Condensed Chaos- Phil Hine
57. The Illiad/The Odyssey - Homer.
58. Steal This Book - Abbie Hoffman
59. Goedel, Escher, Bach - Douglass Hofstadter
60. The Wise Book of Baloney - Baron Von Hoopla {I'm going to be the asshole here having not read it, and ask if this is here through nepotism}
61. Brave New World - Aldous Huxley
62. Against Nature by Joris-Karl Huysmans
63. Sock - Penn Jilette
Ulysses - James Joyce
64.  Man And His Symbols - Carl Jung
The Metamorphosis - Kafka
65. The Trial - Kafka
Amerika - Kafka
66. The art of demotivation - E.L. Kersten
67. The Seducer's Diary - Kierkegaard
68. The Jungle Books - Kipling
69. To Kill A Mockingbird - Harper Lee
70. The Perfect Spy - John Le Carre
The Chronicles of Narnia - CS Lewis
71. Billion Dollar Bunko/How to Cheat at Everything - Simon Lovell
72. The Prince - Nicolo Machiavelli
Principia Discordia - Mal2 and Omarr Ravenhurst Oh how we love to kill our idols.
The Communist Manifesto - Karl Marx
73. The Incunabula and Ong's Hat Papers - Joseph Matheny et al.
74. The Road - Cormac McCarthy
75. Milk, Sulphate, and Alby Starvation - by Mark Millar
Watchmen - Alan Moore
76. Promethea - Alan Moore
V for Vendetta - Alan Moore
77. The Dancers at the End of Time - Michael Moorcock
Book of Five Rings - Musashi
78. Lolita - Vladimir Nabokov
79. Beyond Good and Evil - Friedrich Nietzsche
80. Thus Spoke Zarathustra - Nietzsche
81. A Game of Universe by Eric S. Nylund
82. The Third Policeman by Flann O'Brien
1984 - George Orwell
83. Animal Farm - George Orwell
84. Homage to Catalonia - George Orwell
85. Fight Club - Chuck Palahniuk
Haunted - Chuck Palahniuk
86. Common Sense - Thomas Payne
87. Rights of Man - Thomas Payne.
88. The Gormenghast trilogy - Marvyn Peake
89. Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, Robert Pirsig
90. The Republic - Plato.
91. Thief of Time - Terry Pratchett
Mort - Terry Pratchett
Colour of Magic - Terry Pratchett
Small Gods - Terry Pratchett
Feet of Clay - Terry Pratchett
Atlas Shrugged - Ayn Rand
92. Apocalypse: The Musical - Robert Rankin.
93. Another Roadside Attraction by Tom Robbins
94. The hermetic museum - alchemy & mysticism - Alexander Roob
95. Software - Rudy Rucker
Catcher in the Rye - J.D Salinger.
The Dark Elf Trilogy - R.A. Salvatore
96. No Exit - Sarte
97. Being and Nothingness - Sartre
Where the Wild Things Are - Maurice Sendak
98. The Man who Fell in Love with the Moon - Tom Spanbauer
99. Deus X - Norman Spinrad
100. Cryptonomicon - Neal Stephenson
101. Snow Crash - Neal Stephenson
102. The Diamond Age - Neal Stephenson
103. Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead - Tom Stoppard
104. A Modest Proposal - Johnathan Swift
105. Fooled by Randomness/Black Swan - Nassim Nicholas Taleb {I note with some dismay that these are two different books yah?}
106. Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas - Hunter S. Thompson
Hells Angels- Hunter S Thompson
107. Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail- HST {I'm going to leave this for now. I actually prefer this one and think it takes a whole different approach to FALILV.
Walden - Thoreau
Lord of the Rings - JRR Tolkien
108. The Mysterious Stranger - Mark Twain
109. Cannibalism in the Cars - Mark Twain (short story)
110. Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court - Mark Twain
The Art of War - Sun Tzu
111. The Art of Memetics - Unruh and Wilson
112. Het allerslechtste van Spekkie Big - M. van der Holst
Hellblazer - Various
113. Candide - Voltaire.
114. Breakfast Of Champions - Kurt Vonnegut
115. Slaughterhouse 5 - Kurt Vonnegut
116. Cat's Cradle - K. Vonnegut
Garfield Minus Garfield - Dan Walsh/Jim Davis I ADORE this, and it's clever, but hardly classic.
117. Marabou Stork Nightmares - Irvine Welsh.
118. The Illuminatus! Trilogy, R. A. Wilson
119. The Historical Illuminatus - R.A.W {Haven't read it, but does this deserve to be here?)
Otherland Series - Tad Williams.
120. The Night In Question by Tobias Wolfe
121. Soldier in the Mist - Gene Wolfe
122. Passionate Declarations - Howard Zinn

SO

We need something like a consensus on which of the three previously rejected Gaiman's we want.

Do we need pkdx3?

Consensus on Martian Chronicles.

Also, do we need so much Pratchett.

Also if anyone who's suggested a lesser known one could have a think about whether it really belongs. I stand by Killing Aurora and Marabou Stork Nightmares.

Edit, kicked Thouroux, and also Sun Tzu.

[Placid Dingo]

Also, I don't want to knock all those well known books out that Sig shot at in one swoop, but if anyone would like to second some of those it might be good.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I think Walden should be axed. It's unnecessarily wordy and Thoreau makes a fuss of roughing it and escaping civilization even though his mother brought him cookies and donuts.