dangerous territory/devil's advocate

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

- Do you hold any beliefs or adhere to any political positions which could be construed as "Conservative" by current and popular use of that word?

Yes.  I am a gun rights advocate.

- Is it possible that "Liberalism" assumes itself to be correct in the same self-congratulatory, evidence-deficient way that "Conservatism" does? If so, what issues may be examples of that?

Yes.  They believe that safety trumps rights, and they're proud of it.

DAMMIT, TGRR!
Made me think. 

I did notice in Mass that there was an overemphasis on safety as compared to Texas. In a way it was nice knowing that society at large gave a shit whether we lived or died (you have to live in Texas awhile to appreciate this.) In another way it was annoying as FUCK: "Don't get on a bicycle without a helmet, you'll get a ticket." "That CS gas is illegal here, you can only have pepper spray." etc.

[Faust]

Google tells me the America's is 8% which is not bad considering it was the country that gut raped the world economy in 2008.

Two things:

1.  Our BLS lies and ADMITS it lies.  The real number is about 13%.

2.  You can't really call it rape if people eagery line up for it.

1. That is admittedly on the high end, but still close to normal for a recession. Its not a symptom of a people unwilling to work.

2. True dat.

[Freeky]

Actually now that I notice it I see the far more alarming figure of 4% education. How is this possible, how can you run an education system on so little?

We can't.  It's why illiteracy is beginning to become rampant in people my age and younger.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Actually now that I notice it I see the far more alarming figure of 4% education. How is this possible, how can you run an education system on so little?

We can't.  It's why illiteracy is beginning to become rampant in people my age and younger.

I know people who can't fill out a check. They get the cashiers to do it for them.

[Freeky]

Actually now that I notice it I see the far more alarming figure of 4% education. How is this possible, how can you run an education system on so little?

We can't.  It's why illiteracy is beginning to become rampant in people my age and younger.

I know people who can't fill out a check. They get the cashiers to do it for them.

Shit, the only reason I know how is I vaguely remember being taught that during some school field trip back when I was in KS.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Actually now that I notice it I see the far more alarming figure of 4% education. How is this possible, how can you run an education system on so little?

We can't.  It's why illiteracy is beginning to become rampant in people my age and younger.

I know people who can't fill out a check. They get the cashiers to do it for them.

Shit, the only reason I know how is I vaguely remember being taught that during some school field trip back when I was in KS.

TBH, in a way I hope checks DIE DIE DIE and everybody switches to plastic. I've wasted a good chunk of my life in line behind check writers. 

People still need to know how to do that, though.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

Actually now that I notice it I see the far more alarming figure of 4% education. How is this possible, how can you run an education system on so little?

We can't.  It's why illiteracy is beginning to become rampant in people my age and younger.

I know people who can't fill out a check. They get the cashiers to do it for them.

Shit, the only reason I know how is I vaguely remember being taught that during some school field trip back when I was in KS.

TBH, in a way I hope checks DIE DIE DIE and everybody switches to plastic. I've wasted a good chunk of my life in line behind check writers. 

People still need to know how to do that, though.

I was taught how to write a cheque at school, at about 15. I haven't written one in years though- everything is chip and pin here these days.

I'm thinking the best way to reduce welfare bills in the long term is to provide better education and training, and to support people to change careers if they didn't do too well with schooling in the first place. Does anyone have US literacy figures and stats?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Actually now that I notice it I see the far more alarming figure of 4% education. How is this possible, how can you run an education system on so little?

We can't.  It's why illiteracy is beginning to become rampant in people my age and younger.

I know people who can't fill out a check. They get the cashiers to do it for them.

Shit, the only reason I know how is I vaguely remember being taught that during some school field trip back when I was in KS.

TBH, in a way I hope checks DIE DIE DIE and everybody switches to plastic. I've wasted a good chunk of my life in line behind check writers. 

People still need to know how to do that, though.

I was taught how to write a cheque at school, at about 15. I haven't written one in years though- everything is chip and pin here these days.

I'm thinking the best way to reduce welfare bills in the long term is to provide better education and training, and to support people to change careers if they didn't do too well with schooling in the first place. Does anyone have US literacy figures and stats?

Yeah, but I can't make heads or tails of 'em.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

The stated idea, when the welfare cuts were being pushed in the 90's, was to provide child care, education and help with job placement. Of course this was utter bullshit. I think a few blue states offered child care vouchers, but most didn't.

[Cain]

I can think of a few areas where I could be considered conservative.

By anyone except American conservatives, that is.  Machtpolitik, Baby Jebus and Libertarian "economics" do not feature high on my agenda, of course.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

I can think of a few areas where I could be considered conservative.

By anyone except American conservatives, that is.  Machtpolitik, Baby Jebus and Libertarian "economics" do not feature high on my agenda, of course.

IF YOU AIN'T WID US, YOU IS AGIN US
          /
 

[BabylonHoruv]

I am in favor of reduction of federal power and a relative increase in power of states, counties and cities.  In the US this is generally a Conservative position.  I favor it primarially because I prefer to live in Liberal areas and want the area to be able to implement those policies however.

That and because people are better able to effect change at a local level.

[Placid Dingo]

I don't have a lot of 'conservative' views but I do believe in censorship, especially of hate speech and of what can be produced commercially.

Say again?  You approve of censorship?

Absolutely. When Alan Jones reads out racist shit on radio that leads to Lebanese people getting bashed, that's something that we say as a society is unacceptable and I'm inclined to agree.

We also don't, and I should think, shouldn't, allow commercial sale of things like snuff pornography, beastiality, the guide to being a successful pedophile etc.

I'm commenting on being ok with censorship, generally as far as current practice is concerned.

[P3nT4gR4m]

I don't have a lot of 'conservative' views but I do believe in censorship, especially of hate speech and of what can be produced commercially.

Say again?  You approve of censorship?

Absolutely. When Alan Jones reads out racist shit on radio that leads to Lebanese people getting bashed, that's something that we say as a society is unacceptable and I'm inclined to agree.

We also don't, and I should think, shouldn't, allow commercial sale of things like snuff pornography, beastiality, the guide to being a successful pedophile etc.

I'm commenting on being ok with censorship, generally as far as current practice is concerned.

No way can you ban speech. Of any kind. Free speech (the hypothetical kind that will never exist) requires that everyone gets their say. Unfortunately this includes the 99.99% demographic that tends towards saying totally fucking retarded shit but it has to be all or nothing. Telling people to get on out there and stomp on brown people for great justice is not a crime and should not be a crime. If someone listens and goes out and stomps on a brown person then it is a crime. It's two crimes - stomping on brown people and incitement but the talking bit is only a crime if it leads to the stomping otherwise it's free speech.

Censorship can fuck off because there is no way to draw a line without impinging on rights. Unfortunately censorship will never fuck off, we'll never have the rights we should and, every time someone complains about butthurt and the children, another word is declared badwrong and the noose tightens just a little more.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Maybe. I just think Conservatives have a valid point that Welfare needs to be reformed because when people get on it, they often never get off. But where they see the "Welfare Queen," I se a welfare trap. There ARE people who are on welfare despite being able to work, and there does need to be enforcement to eliminate that.

Where I differ from Liberals is that I dont think society owes a paycheck to anyone who could be working, period. Where I differ from Conservatives is that I dont believe in just dumping people into poverty. To eliminate the welfare expenses we dont just need to cut them off, but train them for real jobs that can earn real money.

Not sure where you live, Vex, but in Texas cash welfare benefits are about $104 a month. That's a month, not a week. And it's a bitch to qualify even for that, a lot of people (who have been denied unemployment benefits which the state is also loathe to pay out, for instance) who need help can't get it.

I know what you're talking about from the old days, I've seen people have babies and stay on welfare until the kids were teenagers, then have another crop of babies so they could continue getting benefits, but I think the people who need help outnumber people like this by far. These were fucked up people, BTW, usually hard alcoholics who supplemented their benefits with prostitution. Cutting welfare didn't make everything all better, obviously.

In my opinion, anyone who HAS A KID to stay on welfare has a mental problem that absolutely qualifies them for welfare.

My sister, a few years ago, went from being a productive adult to a heavy drinker who sued people constantly, and eventually got sick and divorced her high-earning husband so she would go on disability, which she is using along with some of her lawsuit win to pay some quack naturopath for an exorbitantly expensive and dangerous treatment that will probably kill her.

Some people could make the argument that she's a welfare cheat who did it to herself, but she's clearly batfuck insane, or she would have simply finished her Masters degree and gotten a job instead of systematically destroying herself.