Tennessee getting ready to throw poor students under the bus.

[The Johnny]

Why "cishet" instead of "hetcis"? Sounds like implying "Cis-shit" and on a pure phonetical level it IS.

I've always preferred "White middle class person with a penis"  But I know that's a bit long if you're really full of hate.  When said in a properly scornful tone of voice though it's devastating.

At least "breeder" goes more straight into the point; "cis" is also kinda snobbish.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Why "cishet" instead of "hetcis"? Sounds like implying "Cis-shit" and on a pure phonetical level it IS.

I've always preferred "White middle class person with a penis"  But I know that's a bit long if you're really full of hate.  When said in a properly scornful tone of voice though it's devastating.

At least "breeder" goes more straight into the point; "cis" is also kinda snobbish.

"Breeder" is an asshole word, straight up assholery is preferable to this sanctimonious cishet bullshit.

[navkat]

I AM VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THE COOKIE-HATE ITT

I love cookie. Cookie start with c.

[Cain]

Reading the last 10 pages of this thread has caused me to cry cishet man tears.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Reading the last 10 pages of this thread has caused me to cry cishet man tears.

[navkat]

Cis/Cishet is the stupidest shit ever. What the holy fuck? Do we really need a mainstream term for "not gay, identifies as biologically assigned?"

[Cainad (dec.)]

Cis/Cishet is the stupidest shit ever. What the holy fuck? Do we really need a mainstream term for "not gay, identifies as biologically assigned?"

The term seems to have out of the blue, but in conversations where gender identity is being discussed there might as well be a shorthand way to say "gender identity matches biology." I don't object to the use of cis.

"Cishet" has about as much reason to exist as "Transgay." Which is to say, not much.

[The Johnny]

ALRIGHT HEREEEE WE GOOO:

   Straight people are fucking awful. I hate straight men. Straight people ruin EVERYTHING. Did I offend you when i just said that thing that I just said?

   When we were kids I think we were all very specifically told "You can't say things like <<I hate black people>> because its wrong to judge people by the colour of their skin, its wrong to say <<I hate someone of a specific race>>"

   Really what they meant to teach us was "Perpetuating racism towards all these marginalized races in a world made for white people is wrong". The impression that so many of us, if not most of us got is "Saying you hate white people is just as bad as saying you hate black people" And I think that has translated into our ideas of queerness as well. Saying "I hate straight people" is not like saying "I hate gay people". If you think it is, you don't understand your privilege.

   When I was at college, I was at Pride, and one of my teachers, one of my professors, who was trans and gay, we were talking about one of my classmates who was worried that her classmates would find out she was gay, if she spoke about her teacher's homophobia, and my teacher reassured me "Straight people are pretty clueless" And that was like, for me it was like "Woah, I've never heard a grown-up respectable person say anything like that before" And you know, it was kind of empowering to be able to say that "Yeah, straight people are kind of clueless" Often saying "heterophobic" things is empowering for me, I'm sorry. No, wait, I'm not sorry, actually.

   When I'm offended by people saying shit about queer people that's because I've spent a lifetime in fear of homophobia. Literally, a lifetime being scared. My people, queer people, trans* people, we're being killed by straight people, ya know? So when you talk shit about us, you are perpetuating a cultural hatred and animosity towards us.

   When I say "I hate straight people" I'm venting, because I'm tired of being scared of straight people all the time. And you know what? I don't really want to have to worry about your feelings while I'm upset. I have every reason to be upset, and I feel that my empowerment outweighs your offense. The fact that you find my hyperbole so offensive, tells me that you don't understand your privilege.

   Let's seriously think of the consequences of me and my friends complaining about how fucking annoying straight people can be. Do straight people commit suicide because of it? No. Do they get murdered because of it? No. Are they discriminated against in the workplace because of it? No. There aren't actually any problems that come of it. We're a small minority, we're not gonna overpower straight people.

   Does it mean I'm less likely to befriend a straight person? Maybe, yeah, but that has less to do with me saying that i find straight people annoying, and more to do with straight people being annoying. I prefer hanging out with people like me, it makes me feel safe. And i need to feel safe. And if you are offended, you don't understand what that's like, because you are validated in everything, everyday, because you're straight.

   The same goes for white people "I have so much privilege walking down the street being white". I'm not gonna tell anyone of colour that they can't talk about how fucking annoying white people can be. Don't give me any of this colour-blind bullshit, don't tell me that you don't see gay people or bisexual people or straight people, you just see people. You get to say that because you don't have to worry about it. Therefore I take away your right to say that. It erases the experiences of marginalized people.

   Maybe you think I'm too angry, but actually I think you are not angry enough. One really extreme example of, I guess "cisphobia", is trans* people saying "die cis scum". Now imagine a massive population of people, who are killing this tiny population of people, and then when the tiny population says "We fucking hate you" then the big population, who are killing the tiny population say "You don't get to say that!" What!? There is no trend of trans* violence towards cis people, there is no trend of queer violence towards straight people, that is not how the world works. Let us have our queer space, let us feel empowered. Or don't, because we'll fucking do it anyway.

And if you are a "cis-shit" just like me, you should read the comment's section so you know you aren't the only person angered (for different reasons perhaps, nevertheless).

[The Johnny]

One of the possible angles that can be taken, is that his entire perspective is tainted by a sociological reductionism.

There are homogenous "tribes" that are in a perpetual conflict because they have irreconciliable objectives.

And you see, Im no tribesmen, but if you hate me for the sole reason of existing i really don't think assiting you in any way will be benefitial for me, because you sound like a motherfucking PROTO-FASCIST, that given any position of power or opportunity will try to hurt me, just because you lumped me in with a bunch of other people i have little to nothing to do with their decisions or thoughts.

"All X are Y" Fuck you.

[Freeky]

Wow, that's a lot of garbage that guy spewed. 

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

All I can hope is that Juana simply had a really shitty gender studies professor who indoctrinated her in some of these terrible ideas, and that they will shift over time as she is exposed to less... well, less completely shitty, unacceptable bullshit.

Judging from the youtube link, I'd argue that it goes a bit farther than that.

Yeah, there seems to be a whole subculture of it. And that's a shame, really, because I know a fuckton of nonwhite and/or nonmale and/or noncis and/or nonhetero people, including myself, who are not at all represented by that subculture and DO NOT LIKE the fact that the people in it seem to be presuming to speak for everyone.

It's an amazingly counterproductive subculture, and one that I suspect is largely enabled by echo-chamber social networking. A particularly lovely example can be found in Tumblr (for some of the most hilariously egregious examples, clicky: http://www.reddit.com/r/TumblrInAction/ )

Outrage has become a form of social currency. Shouting out the most over-the-top anti-white-male-cis-hetero statements is a way to accumulate "likes" from the choir.


edit: LOL, that YouTube link is also on the Reddit

My non-gender-binary non-straight non-white daughter also finds it repellent. But then, she has straight white male cisgendered friends, and isn't any happier to see them "othered" than they are happy to see her "othered".

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I AM VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THE COOKIE-HATE ITT

I will come right out and say that I do not hate the cookies. I may not be a cookie, but I am a cookie ally.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

ALRIGHT HEREEEE WE GOOO:

   Straight people are fucking awful. I hate straight men. Straight people ruin EVERYTHING. Did I offend you when i just said that thing that I just said?

   When we were kids I think we were all very specifically told "You can't say things like <<I hate black people>> because its wrong to judge people by the colour of their skin, its wrong to say <<I hate someone of a specific race>>"

   Really what they meant to teach us was "Perpetuating racism towards all these marginalized races in a world made for white people is wrong". The impression that so many of us, if not most of us got is "Saying you hate white people is just as bad as saying you hate black people" And I think that has translated into our ideas of queerness as well. Saying "I hate straight people" is not like saying "I hate gay people". If you think it is, you don't understand your privilege.

   When I was at college, I was at Pride, and one of my teachers, one of my professors, who was trans and gay, we were talking about one of my classmates who was worried that her classmates would find out she was gay, if she spoke about her teacher's homophobia, and my teacher reassured me "Straight people are pretty clueless" And that was like, for me it was like "Woah, I've never heard a grown-up respectable person say anything like that before" And you know, it was kind of empowering to be able to say that "Yeah, straight people are kind of clueless" Often saying "heterophobic" things is empowering for me, I'm sorry. No, wait, I'm not sorry, actually.

   When I'm offended by people saying shit about queer people that's because I've spent a lifetime in fear of homophobia. Literally, a lifetime being scared. My people, queer people, trans* people, we're being killed by straight people, ya know? So when you talk shit about us, you are perpetuating a cultural hatred and animosity towards us.

   When I say "I hate straight people" I'm venting, because I'm tired of being scared of straight people all the time. And you know what? I don't really want to have to worry about your feelings while I'm upset. I have every reason to be upset, and I feel that my empowerment outweighs your offense. The fact that you find my hyperbole so offensive, tells me that you don't understand your privilege.

   Let's seriously think of the consequences of me and my friends complaining about how fucking annoying straight people can be. Do straight people commit suicide because of it? No. Do they get murdered because of it? No. Are they discriminated against in the workplace because of it? No. There aren't actually any problems that come of it. We're a small minority, we're not gonna overpower straight people.

   Does it mean I'm less likely to befriend a straight person? Maybe, yeah, but that has less to do with me saying that i find straight people annoying, and more to do with straight people being annoying. I prefer hanging out with people like me, it makes me feel safe. And i need to feel safe. And if you are offended, you don't understand what that's like, because you are validated in everything, everyday, because you're straight.

   The same goes for white people "I have so much privilege walking down the street being white". I'm not gonna tell anyone of colour that they can't talk about how fucking annoying white people can be. Don't give me any of this colour-blind bullshit, don't tell me that you don't see gay people or bisexual people or straight people, you just see people. You get to say that because you don't have to worry about it. Therefore I take away your right to say that. It erases the experiences of marginalized people.

   Maybe you think I'm too angry, but actually I think you are not angry enough. One really extreme example of, I guess "cisphobia", is trans* people saying "die cis scum". Now imagine a massive population of people, who are killing this tiny population of people, and then when the tiny population says "We fucking hate you" then the big population, who are killing the tiny population say "You don't get to say that!" What!? There is no trend of trans* violence towards cis people, there is no trend of queer violence towards straight people, that is not how the world works. Let us have our queer space, let us feel empowered. Or don't, because we'll fucking do it anyway.

And if you are a "cis-shit" just like me, you should read the comment's section so you know you aren't the only person angered (for different reasons perhaps, nevertheless).

He has some good points buried in all the hate and separatism, but the good points have already been made by many people without the hate and separatism, and the hate and separatism elements are destructive to the type of environment that would (and, I believe, will) ultimately allow for an accepting nonbinary view of gender and sexuality to flourish.

It's not productive to equality for brown people to hate white people. In fact, historically the acts most conducive for furthering acceptance of equality have been those which voluntarily integrate, rather than separate, different people. The Loving decision. Gay marriage, itself, is an integrative act, because of community recognition. Promoting hatred and separatism has never been productive to equality.

[Pergamos]

Why "cishet" instead of "hetcis"? Sounds like implying "Cis-shit" and on a pure phonetical level it IS.

I've always preferred "White middle class person with a penis"  But I know that's a bit long if you're really full of hate.  When said in a properly scornful tone of voice though it's devastating.

At least "breeder" goes more straight into the point; "cis" is also kinda snobbish.

Breeder just means heterosexual though.  That's what my godmothers used to call straights.  That and Het (which can be said with a lot of hate, and I blame some of my sexual confusion in college on hearing it said that way)

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I think it is fairly horrible for that guy to say that the only horrible part of racism is for the more powerful group to hate the less powerful group. Apparently he is not familiar with the Hutus and the Tutsis, and how that horror can reverse to become just as terrifyingly destructive and terrible in the other direction, or even with the basic concept of how destructive hate is within a society. As a nonwhite person I have NEVER been taught that it is acceptable to hate white people just because they have more power and some of them hate me for no reason other than that I am not white. That kind of hate is absolutely as repugnant as whites hating coloreds.

Martin Luther King Jr. is a hero for a very good reason, as is Nelson Mandela, who came out of prison with a very good reason to hate white people but never took it up, never espoused it. Neither of them were perfect men, but they had beliefs which changed a lot of people's lives, and those beliefs eschewed hatred, rather than embracing it.