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Messages - Cain

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16
Wait, what?

He's confessing to ordering peoples executions here, why haven't I seen any mention of this before?

At the time he said it?  Probably because they thought he was joking.  "Oh Savile, what a card.  You are hilarious, with your tracksuit and big talk".  Savile had that reputation, as a joker and teller of tall tales, and his public perception allowed him to get away with saying all kinds of disturbing things.  Like when he told a patient at a hospital he was visiting that they were lucky the nurse was there or he would be able to have his way with her (because she was physically disabled).  That's just Jimmy being Jimmy, innit?

After the allegations came to light....well, that's a very good question, isn't it?  There are so many potentially seedy aspects to the Savile story it's now almost impossible to keep track of who may be covering for him.  People close to the Royals, close to the Tory Party, the intelligence services, people in the entertainment industry....not to mention Savile did some quite serious work as a consultant and PR expert for some rather large businesses.  While the press apparently delight in making up ridiculous nonsense to publish about him (because who wouldn't want to emulate such a great media figure as Max Clifford), everyone's just a little bit wary about what might come out of such an investigation.

Which is also an interesting point.  Savile alleged, years ago, that just before his knighthood, the press were looking into his past, trying to figure out why he hadn't received any honours yet.  He said they found nothing because there was nothing to find....but we know that wasn't true.  Were the press really sniffing around his past?  If so, they either did a bloody awful job of it....or else they were persuaded to keep quiet.

18
Also, once you filter for their usual biases*, this RigInt thread is full of very interesting information.  At the very least, in addition to the above picture:

- Barbara Bush was a big fan of Savile, and appeared to know him in a personal capacity
- Prince Charles also said he saw Savile as a "mentor"...in what, one dreads to think.  Also yet another reason for why the walking Constitutional Crisis that is Prince Charles should never be allowed to become King
- More on Savile's politics.  Seems he was less the doctrinaire neoliberal rightwinger, and more of a romanticist
-More investigation into the possibility that Savile's secret was not entirely unknown in entertainment circles.  In particular, there is an interesting video of him being interviewed by Ricky Gervais where the latter can barely hide his contempt for the man, and makes a couple of curious comments.
- Speculation regarding his links to the private security industry via the trustees of his charity (in particular "Sabrewatch") and the highly politically connected Coutts bank.
- information about organised pedophilia being covered up by Lambeth and Islington councils (and check out some of the names linked to those scandals!).
- information that Savile went to Moscow on holiday in the 1950s.
- Speculation over Savile's enigmatic remark that "I am the Myra Hindley story".
- video of Louis Theroux talking about his interviewing of Savile
- video interviews of Savile's driver were stolen from a data storage firm who work with Manchester police
- It seems at least three predatory pedophiles in addition to Savile had essentially unrestricted access to the Royal Family - Paul Kidd, the former MI6 ambassador guy, and Keith Harding.
- The intelligence services posted D-notices with the Observer and Guardian regarding specific allegations of child abuse in 1984
- information about Kincora and "Clockwork Orange"


The last, while not directly tied to Savile, interests me, as one theory I've been knocking around in regards to why there was a police and intelligence coverup touches on that.  Basically, the UK in the 1970s was a pretty politically volatile place.  You had the intelligence services playing games with government, an assortment of cranks and would-be militias springing up, intrigue and violence, economic malaise...the UK was looking very shaky.

Under those circumstances, finding out some rather high ranking members of government were into raping children may have been the trigger which could bring the whole thing spiralling out of control.  The thing about the security services, alluded to in that thread but also something I've noted from my own interactions with them and knowledge of them, is that they are typically status quo extremists.  Not necessarily to the government of the day, but to the existing power structure (which government is derived from).  As such, they can justify almost any act when it comes to defending the stability and viability of the British state.  Assassination, torture...and maybe covering up for child abusers?  It's not beyond the realm of possibility.

Of course, that doesn't explain everything, as it's a politically and chronologically bound explanation of a series of events that, clearly, go well beyond the 70s.  But it may well be an important part of the puzzle.

*for those who are not aware of RigInt, their usual biases are the role of the occult in parapolitics, suspicion about the potentially Lovecraftian nature of the universe and the links between those, fascism and organised pedophilia

19
It is.  Especially since Sonderkommando is a generic designation within the SS, and while Sonderkommando were indeed non-Germans (mostly Jews in fact) pressed into service in the concentration camps, SS-Sonderkommando were "special action groups" sent into the field for specific tasks, normally as auxilary support for other branches of the SS.  As such, membership of the latter makes one culpable for the SS's war crimes, while the former does not.

Also, most Sonderkommando were, of course, killed in the end.

20
From Dan Davies' biography on Jimmy Savile:


22
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/dec/15/leaked-document-labour-strategy-counter-ukip-threat-immigration

This is quite interesting - well, not the document, but the reporting on it.

Quote
An internal Labour document sent to the party’s MPs has urged them to combat the electoral threat from Ukip by talking about the pressures immigration places on services such as health and housing.

Quote
It also says “Volunteers and activists must understand and acknowledge electors’ concerns about immigration on the doorstep, which will mean hearing opinions that may not gel with their own. In these cases, it’s important to remember that first phase of re-establishing trust is to listen and understand.

“Our focus must instead be moving the conversation on to issues where we have clear policy which tackles the problems people are worried about, whether they express those concerns through the prism of immigration or not.”

The damage in the paragraph potentially lies in the implication that voters do not understand the root causes of their concern about immigration.

Cue a lot of politicians with mealy-mouthed responses, because you can't outright tell someone they do not understand something.

But actually, they're right. People don't understand the issues, because the Right have lied, distorted and manipulated so hard that 'the immigrants' have become the root of all our ills - not slashed budgets, a false recovery, or the steady erosion of worker's rights. All these things are laid at the door of 'the immigrants', even though immigration has more to do with the solution than the problem. Because most immigrants work and pay their taxes, which is pretty fucking vital when you've got an ageing population with the elderly starting to outnumber the young.

Labour are terrified of outright stating the truth - they're so desperate not to seem 'out of touch' with people (even though those people are out of touch with reality) they are actually willing to don the 'prism' of racist rhetoric in order to try and obfuscate their true beliefs and get back into power. Because they believe the british public are too stupid to listen to and understand their argument.

What makes me really depressed is that they may be right in thinking that.

If it makes you feel better, the vast majority of people in the UK, going by the polls, give a relatively low weighting to immigration as an issue.

Which makes this even more foolish, IMO.  You never accept an opponent's framing of a debate - they framed that debate in a particular way because it plays to their strengths, and in accepting the frame, you are purposefully allowing yourself to be gimped.  In particular, Labour are never going to get the Crazy Vote while the option of the 'Kippers is available to the public.  It's a losing proposition, why even bother?

That said, I don't think the Tories or UKIP are very sincere about their concerns regarding immigration, except maybe at a rank and file level.  Immigration has always been the UKIP wedge for attacking Europe - I honestly don't think Farage in particular gives a toss about where anyone comes from, mainly because no matter where they live, it's not as awesome as his own opinion of himself.  And the Tories are in a halfway house, where their Eurosceptic backbench does it for much the same reason as UKIP, and Cameron does it in order to not lose voters to UKIP.

I'm wondering if this leak is also timed to coincide with pressure to question the Blair cabinet with what they knew over torture.  Ed Miliband can claim with some credibility he had nothing to do with that...but his brother did, and he is tainted by proximity.  If someone wanted to mount a leadership bid, a hypothetical MP by the name of Jlan Aohnston, or Cvette Yooper, for example, they'd be moving towards ideal conditions for doing so.

23
Well, Obama's sorta like Nixon.  If Nixon had a tan.  And became really rightwing.  And less competent.

24
Cook all the lines, Hoopla.  It is your destiny.

Seriously though, be sure to memorize how to deal with burns.  Most useful advice I can give to anyone working in a kitchen, right there.

Yeah second day and that's already very good advice. My knuckles are blinking like stop lights.

People always think it will be the knives that get them.  Constant low grade burns featured highly in my first few months in a kitchen. and I wasn't alone in that experience.

25
The Richard Nixon school of ballet and the arts / Re: Whirlpool Memes
« on: December 14, 2014, 09:43:43 am »
LMNO is a salesman for Whirlpool washing machines, and this is product testing for a new advertising campaign.

26
Cook all the lines, Hoopla.  It is your destiny.

Seriously though, be sure to memorize how to deal with burns.  Most useful advice I can give to anyone working in a kitchen, right there.

27
The Richard Nixon school of ballet and the arts / Re: Aya
« on: December 13, 2014, 04:51:12 pm »
FUCK YOU, MY FATHER DIED FROM USING SCIENCE (he was trying to resurrect a dead meme when it exploded in his face :()

28
Literate Chaotic / Re: Unofficial What are you Reading Thread?
« on: December 13, 2014, 04:37:20 pm »
Sounds interesting.  Might read them sometime after Xmas, as I'll actually have free time then.

29
Paperwork for the new job is blah.  Do I really need three different forms of ID?  Really?  No, but since it's all "British jerbs fuh British werkers" and that shite, I have to jump through half a dozen hoops to prove I'm not a Dirty Scrounging Immigrant Stealing Jobs From Hardworking British Families".  Like, say, the Queen or something.

The fuck, really? And I thought it was bad in Amerka.

Yup.  Before 2011, I never once showed anything more than a recent bank statement when getting a job.

Now it's passport, driving licence, recent bank statement/utility bill/birth certificate/drop of DNA with "made in Britain" running through the middle...something like that.  Because otherwise, a Polish person might sneak in and get my job.

30
Paperwork for the new job is blah.  Do I really need three different forms of ID?  Really?  No, but since it's all "British jerbs fuh British werkers" and that shite, I have to jump through half a dozen hoops to prove I'm not a Dirty Scrounging Immigrant Stealing Jobs From Hardworking British Families".  Like, say, the Queen or something.

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