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Messages - Cain

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I think your list is shaping up nicely but more emphasis needs placed on fear. Besides being top of the list, I'd suggest making it the top fifty or so, with the rest listed beneath. Thing is, if you're capable of scaring the shit out of your mark, pretty much every other motivating factor pales to insignificance. It follows that employing any other motivating factor than the liberal application of blind terror is the plight of the truly desperate.

I think there may even be an argument that the rest of the list can be boiled down to fear in some form or other.

Please make it, I'd like to read such a thing. I'm not sold on Fear as the all time winner yet though, particularly when it's so easy to point at so fucking many decisions that were obviously made on greed.

MICE again puts greed high on the list. I'd assume the money aspect would cover debts and the like as much as new acquisitions. Gambling problem or such I would guess fall under the compromised angle?

Either/or.  Depends on the context - who the gambling debt is to, whether they have dependents who are aware of it, etc.  A married man with kids in private school racking up debt to the mafia is very different from a single guy who likes playing poker despite being fucing terrible at it and not being able to afford being that fucking terrible at it.

What if our solar system was quarantined because no other creatures in the universe actually consumed dead organics? Some creatures survive off of solar radiation, others photosynthesis or absorbing nutrients from soil. Imagine the horror if we ever figured out how to leave our planet... after all, we are the monsters of the universe. At the dawn of our greatest age when interstellar travel becomes possible the Earth is destroyed by creatures known as Talecians, distant relations to our bovines. One Earth vessel escapes, manned by a motley promotional crew. They spend the rest of their days running from the pursuing cattle who want nothing more than to exterminate the last of humankind. C.O.W. is a science fiction satire that examines our role in the universe. Based on real research, Thomax Green's vision even challenges readers with an unexpected explanation for the Big Bang. All of which will have you laughing so long you'll have to pick the bugs out of your teeth like a grizzly biker.

Based on real research, Thomax Green's vision even challenges readers with an unexpected explanation for the Big Bang

Based on real research, Thomax Green's vision

Based on real research

The thing is though, the sale isn't particularly subtle anywhere, anymore. When was the last time you saw an advert trying to tap into anything as nuanced as Envy? I'd class sex selling under Greed, by the by. Particularly advertising's type of objectification.

And it's not an in-stone list per say, more like a personal rule of thumb that I'm trying to develop. I'm guessing that if I can see an obviously dumb decision and determine why relatively quickly, I'll be able to get back to not giving a fuck much faster. It gives much more time to those doing things that at least have some shade of grey to it which tend to be much more interesting cases. Look at the amount of time we waste on Trump and co when shit's still pretty sideways in the Ukraine. There's that ISIS issue too. Heard anything about China recently? Exactly, neither have I, but I'm sure Cain could tell you that something horrific has happened there in the past week or so.

Also, just to throw in here, in the intelligence services, they use the acronym MICE as a shorthand to remember the most common motivators when handling an agent and why they may want to work for you:


Assange has been a narcissistic son of a bitch since day one.  But since he appeared to be doing more good than damage...

And true Roger, it makes me question what kind of an empire we are these days.  Back in the day, we'd send a couple of likely lads on loan from the SAS, stick a knife in his ribs and be done.  Then again, the last time MI6 tried a major covert operation they were caught by Libyan farmers, so maybe it's best we outsource this to the CIA...

Assange has jumped off the slippery slope from merely questionable to outright nihilistic lack of interest in the people he hurts.

Lets not forget he has also in the last 2 months:

- almost certainly been a useful idiot in a Russian intelligence operation
- published banking and credit card information of voters who donated to the Democrats
- published basic information on all registered female voters in Turkey
- hosted malware on Wikileaks
- implied a DNC official was murdered because he was passing on information to him, before quickly backing away from said statement
- made a weird, quasi anti-Semitic tweet before quickly deleting it

All of this comes back to basic vetting of the information he gets.  It seems unless someone holds his hand and walks him through the problems, he won't even bother to fix them (like the malware....he removed the logs pointed out to him, but left hosted duplicates and other files in place).

And now he's vowing to bring Hillary down.  And despite information on Trump being hacked, he has not seen fit to publish it (the DNC oppo research on Trump, for example).  And he's picking bizarre fights on Twitter with Snowden.

Come 2017, I fully expect to find him naked, fighting a swan.

The Richard Nixon school of ballet and the arts / Re: Pagan or Racist?
« on: August 23, 2016, 10:57:58 am »
Fortunately no.  However. my University did have a Pagan society, which I briefly trolled IRL, and of course there was our years long campaigns against Mysticwicks and The Celtic Connection.

The Richard Nixon school of ballet and the arts / Re: Pagan or Racist?
« on: August 23, 2016, 10:49:39 am »
All the Asatru I have met, some of whom were racist and some of whom were not, would be offended at being called Pagan.  They're Heathen or Asatru,  I don't think they want to share an umbrella term with the Wiccans.

Good.  If we let Pagans start dictating terms, next they'll be demanding equal rights, or the vote.

I'm not going to lie - as I get older, watching any tv show with a cast whose characters are meant to be teenagers can be pretty awkward.  All the scenes in Scream with Carlson Young were getting me worried until I checked and found out she's only a couple of years younger than I am.  This has reduced the awkwardness considerably, but still...

The Richard Nixon school of ballet and the arts / Re: Pagan or Racist?
« on: August 23, 2016, 01:22:12 am »
Could someone make the white power people stop ruining norse gods for everyone?

Idris Elba maybe?

James Bond is a norse god?

Actually, that makes a level of sense...the drinking, fighting and womanising are the last things a covert agent should be doing.  A viking covert agent, however...

The Richard Nixon school of ballet and the arts / Re: Pagan or Racist?
« on: August 22, 2016, 09:35:21 pm »
It appears to be a venture by a Jim Lyngvild, a fashion critic, writer of fantasy novels and social media narcissist in Denmark (note: Bawer is one of the many sources cited by Breivik's manifesto, nevertheless there is an interesting anecdote further down)

It seems, on early inspection, that this isn't organised Odinist white power stuff...but Lyngvild isn't exactly a man of character or high moral standing either, and may be unwittingly enabling racism due to his status.

Literate Chaotic / Re: Unofficial What are you Reading Thread?
« on: August 22, 2016, 09:27:29 pm »
I've been re-reading Joe Abercrombie's First Law trilogy and the First Law world novels.

My personal favourite is without a doubt Best Served Cold, but perhaps his overall best is Red Country.  After deconstructing staple fantasy tropes in some very brutal ways for the previous few books, he finally starts deconstructing his own work.  Nicomo Cosca's mask, as an affable if somewhat unscrupulous and completely untrustworthy mercenary finally falls away to reveal what should've been obvious from the very start - that Cosca is a man who would trample over an army of corpses to make money, so long as those corpses were in no position to fight back in the first place.  The Company of the Gracious Hand make the Thousand Swords look like a well behaved, professional outfit by comparison.

A lot of the story seems to be about the tales people tell themselves to justify their own cruelty.  Papa Ring thinks his cruelty and violence is justified because he always keeps his word.  He may employ a small army of thugs, killers and child-snatchers, may use threats against loved ones to make someone throw a bout, but he keeps his word.  Cosca, by contrast, thinks because he acts like he's above it all, and that he is upfront about his dishonesty, treachery and lust for coin, that makes him superior than the "hypocrites" within the Inquisition.  The Dragon People justify their kidnapping on driving out the outlanders and defending their "way of life" (which mostly seems to revolve around kidnapping and brainwashing children in preparation to wage war against the outlanders).

But Best Served Cold...ah, a tale of revenge and betrayal and how, once you start killing people, it's hard to keep it to a set number. 

‘Revenge. If you could even get it, what good would it do you? All this expenditure of effort, pain, treasure, blood, for what? Who is ever left better off for it?’  His sad eyes watched her slowly stand. ‘Not the avenged dead, certainly. They rot on, regardless. Not those who are avenged upon, of course. Corpses all. And what of the ones who take vengeance, what of them? Do they sleep easier, do you suppose, once they have heaped murder on murder? Sown the bloody seeds of a hundred other retributions?’ She circled around, trying to think of some trick to kill him with. ‘All those dead men at that bank in Westport, that was your righteous work, I suppose? And the carnage at Cardotti’s, a fair and proportionate reply?’
‘What had to be done!’
‘Ah, what had to be done. The favourite excuse of unexamined evil echoes down the ages and slobbers from your twisted mouth.’  He danced at her, their swords rang together, once, twice. He jabbed, she parried and jabbed back. Each contact sent a jolt of pain up her arm. She ground her teeth together, forced the scowl to stay on her face, but there was no disguising how much it hurt her, or how clumsy she was with it. If she’d had small chances with her left, she had none at all with her right, and he knew it already.
‘Why the Fates chose you for saving I will never guess, but you should have thanked it kindly and slunk away into obscurity. Let us not pretend you and your brother did not deserve precisely what you received.’
‘Fuck yourself! I didn’t deserve that!’ But even as she said it, she had to wonder. ‘My brother didn’t!’
Ganmark snorted. ‘No one is quicker to forgive a handsome man than I, but your brother was a vindictive coward. A charming, greedy, ruthless, spineless parasite. A man of the very lowest character imaginable. The only thing that lifted him from utter worthlessness, and utter inconsequence, was you.’ He sprang at her with lethal speed and she reeled away, fell against a cherry tree with a grunt and stumbled back through the shower of white blossom. He could surely have spitted her but he stayed still as a statue, sword at the ready, smiling faintly as he watched her thrash her way clear.
‘And let us face the facts, General Murcatto. You, for all your undeniable talents, have hardly been a paragon of virtue. Why, there must be a hundred thousand people with just reasons to fling your hated carcass from that terrace!’
‘Not Orso. Not him!’ She came low, jabbing sloppily at his hips, wincing as he flicked her sword aside and jarred the grip in her twisted palm.
‘If that’s a joke, it’s not a funny one. Quibble with the judge, when the sentence is self-evidently more than righteous?’ He placed his feet with all the watchful care of an artist applying paint to a canvas, steering her back onto the cobbles. ‘How many deaths have you had a hand in? How much destruction? You are a bandit! A glorified profiteer! You are a maggot grown fat on the rotting corpse of Styria!’

That said, Monza, like Glotka, like Caul Shivers, like Logen Ninefingers (when he's not caught up in the battle frenzy) and like a few other characters, isn't anywhere near as dark as she makes out, or her reputation suggests:

You could forget about revenge. You could compromise. You could . . . be merciful.’
‘Mercy and cowardice are the same,’ she growled, narrow eyes fixed on the black gate at the far end of the blasted gardens.
Cosca gave a sad smile. ‘Are they indeed?’
‘Conscience is an excuse not to do what needs doing.’
‘I see.’
‘No use weeping about it. That’s how the world is.’
‘The good get nothing extra. When they die they turn to shit like the rest of us. You have to keep your eyes ahead, always ahead, fight one battle at a time. You can’t hesitate, no matter the costs, no matter the—’
‘Do you know why I always loved you, Monza?’
‘Eh?’ Her eyes flickered to him, surprised.
‘Even after you betrayed me? More, after you betrayed me?’ Cosca leaned slowly towards her. ‘Because I know you don’t really believe any of that rubbish. Those are the lies you tell yourself so you can live with what you’ve done. What you’ve had to do.’
There was a long pause. Then she swallowed as though she was about to puke. ‘You always said I had a devil in me.’
‘Did I? Well, so do we all.’ He waved a hand. ‘You’re no saint, that much we know. A child of a bloody time. But you’re nothing like as dark as you make out.’
‘I pretend to care for the men, but in truth I don’t give a damn whether they live or die. You always did care, but you pretend not to give a damn. I never saw you waste one man’s life. And yet they like me better. Hah. There’s justice. You always did the right thing by me, Monza. Even when you betrayed me, it was better than I deserved. I’ve never forgotten that time in Muris, after the siege, when you wouldn’t let the slavers have those children. Everyone wanted to take the money. I did. Faithful did. Even Benna. Especially Benna. But not you.’
‘Only gave you a scratch,’ she muttered.
‘Don’t be modest, you were ready to kill me. These are ruthless times we live in, and in ruthless times, mercy and cowardice are entire opposites. We all turn to shit when we die, Monza, but not all of us are shit while we’re alive. Most of us are.’ His eyes rolled to heaven. ‘God knows I am. But you never were.’


Literate Chaotic / Re: Unofficial What are you Reading Thread?
« on: August 22, 2016, 08:24:18 am »
I don't know what to read now. I still have five weeks and I feel like I should be using it to read things that are 100% unrelated to science and academia during this brief window when I CAN. But what would those things even be?

I recommend The Black Company series by Glen Cook.

To everyone.  All the time.

Until they beg me to stop.

Pure entertainment though, in contrast to much of the... heavier stuff ITT.

If you like The Black Company, you really need to give The Malazan Books of the Fallen a read.  Though it does get somewhat heavy in places (Midnight Tides was clearly penned in the lead up to the Iraq War, and it really shows, and Toll the Hounds is about as depressing a book as you can get)

Literate Chaotic / Re: Unofficial What are you Reading Thread?
« on: August 22, 2016, 08:22:10 am »
I got the book a month ago, but I'm digging into R Scott Bakker's The Great Ordeal in earnest now.

As always, Bakker treads the line between "absurdly overwrought" and "lovingly crafted" writing. I can see a lot of people getting into this series and wanting to smash Bakker's keyboard. I'm a fan.

I need to get the Kindle version.  I have the hardback, but since I read all the others on the Kindle, it feels...wrong.  I can't highlight things or compare notes easily.

That said, eating Sranc was a fucking terrible idea.

Literate Chaotic / Re: Unofficial What are you Reading Thread?
« on: August 22, 2016, 08:20:59 am »
I'm allllllmost done reading Lewis Hyde's Trickster Makes This World. I did a quick forum search, and I see a reference to this work by Cain. I thought maybe I'd seen a reference to the book here and that's why I picked it up, but it must have been elsewhere.

All I can say is that I wish I had read this book years ago. Not only is its prose beautiful, many of it's themes reinforce my understanding of Discordianism.

...the loser is that person who chooses a single side of a contradiction. The sign of such singlemindedness is contradiction without humor rather that contradiction with a smile. Here it may help to resurrect the old meaning of "humor": the word once referred to fluids (this the bodily "humors") and comes ultimately from a Latin root (umor) having to do with moisture, liquid, dampness. To treat ambivalence with humor is to keep it loose; humor oils the joint where contradictions meet. If humor evaporates, then ambiguity becomes polarized and conflict follows.

Absolutely stellar. Recommended reading for all. My closest friends will probably be getting a copy of this book from me for Christmas this year.

It's a great book.  I think it was actually part of the recommended reading by R U Sirius on his Maybe Logic course on pranks and hoaxes throughout history

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