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91
Or Kill Me / Re: You're not conscious
« Last post by Cramulus on April 26, 2017, 04:07:00 pm »
I do have to say, I don't buy into any "enlightenment" models of consciousness, at all.

I think there's a lot of baggage around the term Enlightenment, so let me unpack it a little bit so we don't get snagged.

I think that there are moments when we're more "awake" (to use a nebulous Gurdjieff term). But they don't last, we will always get distracted and lose it. You can spend your life meditating on a mountain, and have some holy experience, but as soon as you come down into the city and smell food, it's gone.  There are no "enlightened" people. There are enlightened moments.

With a lot of work, you might be able to stay in that moment for a minute or two, but that's the best you can hope for.

There are experiences, though, which will alter your perception, perhaps forever. Like, if you experience a real moment of ego-death... in that moment, all the information inside of you gets reorganized. You process things differently. The self has changed. There are a few kinds of meditative experiences that work like this (and non-meditative experiences too - take childbirth). In this thread I'm trying to explore paths to one of them.


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I don't think there is a higher state of consciousness, nor do I believe that most of us live our lives in a suboptimal state.

I can observe in myself that my level of consciousness crests and troughs throughout the day. And that when it's in the higher state, I'm better at dealing with .. well, basically everything.

Example:
I get in an argument with somebody, I spend most of the day pacing around and stewing, mentally replaying it, fantasizing about what I could have said. We'd call this a low level of consciousness because I'm wrapped up IN the emotion, I'm not able to think ABOUT it.  I'm "out of balance". When I calm down, when the emotional poison has run its course, I feel different (physically), and I'm able to process the experience from a different angle. When I was pissed off, I couldn't see how I was wrong. When I am mindful, it's like I'm looking down on that battlefield from above, instead of fighting on the front line.

We could call this a "different" state. The gist of this thread is about trying to increase that capacity within oneself, to expand ones ability to operate their minds - so we're making a value judgment here, that it's a higher, more desirable state.




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I think that most of us don't spend enough time thinking rationally or methodically during the perfectly whole aware times we already experience.

The aim I'm discussing in this thread is different than just being more rational or methodical. The rational mind is one part of the self, but if we just focus on that, we will end up unbalanced. Speaking for myself, my problem is that I ignore my body, and I ignore my emotions. I will go entire days forgetting to eat, and then I get cranky and don't understand why. Or I will ignore my emotions in favor of a rational choice, and will ultimately become miserable. From a "mindful" state of being, it's obvious. But when I'm in the mix, it's invisible. I can only see the carrot 4 inches in front of my face.


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But, I may be getting hung up on the layers of mystical obfuscation. It's possible that what you mean by "awareness" is vastly less occluded than it seems.

We're talking about internal states which we can't show to each other, so we're forced to use shitty language

For my part, I am aiming to understand what Gurdjieff meant by "consciousness" -  it is not quite what we mean in the field of neuroscience. But it's worth exploring nonetheless. I recognize that discussing this topic in an esoteric context rather than a modern material one is not everybody's cup of tea.
 

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That said, it seems to me that the real challenge for most people is not accomplishing a higher state of awareness or attaining conscious performance of tasks that have long since been relegated to automatic control, but rather, learning to be comfortable just existing in one's own skin. Attaining a state of contentment with being alone with the self. Becoming at home existing with the memories and thoughts that flow through constantly as a side-effect of multiple network emergent property of consciousness.

Being comfortable with the self, being peaceful and still, is a fine aim.

We all know somebody, however, who is perfectly comfortable being a piece of shit. They actually need to be less comfortable, more critical and reflective, more connected to the people around them.

There's a state of being where you're able to observe which is correct for you - being able to enter that space is MY aim.
92
Or Kill Me / Re: You're not conscious
« Last post by LMNO on April 26, 2017, 03:22:58 pm »
The short answer is that metaphors can be incredibly deceptive and can lead to entirely false notions of how the universe works.

Cf: metaphors for quantum behavior leading to the belief that consciousness literally changes objective reality.
93
Or Kill Me / Re: You're not conscious
« Last post by tyrannosaurus vex on April 26, 2017, 03:18:23 pm »
There may be no such thing as a true "higher state of consciousness", but if there is something both indistinguishable from that to the experiencer and apparently that to the observer, there might as well be. There are states of awareness that can be and have been achieved almost as a matter of course by, say, indigenous Americans or yogis in Nepal, which endow them with a much greater awareness of their environments than the human default. See also many martial arts. I don't buy that these are the result of a spiritual awakening so much as deep training of one's senses, but what's the harm in allowing yourself to believe it's spiritual, if that makes it more interesting?
94
Or Kill Me / Re: You're not conscious
« Last post by Junkenstein on April 26, 2017, 02:58:20 pm »
I think that was V3x, I know it wasn't mine.
95
I must be doing something wrong. Just passed my 12th anniversary and have not yet resorted to slut-shaming or female oppression. I mean, maybe trapping women in loveless marriages and shoving them down into 2nd- or 3rd-class citizenship is one way to make a marriage last. But it seems a like a whole lot of not very rewarding work when you can get the same result just by not being an incredible asshole.

Spot on.
96
Or Kill Me / Re: You're not conscious
« Last post by Mesozoic Mister Nigel on April 26, 2017, 02:47:37 pm »
I believe that the search for a state of higher consciousness as a discrete experience, a sort of key to enlightenment or to a superior state of being, stands at risk of becoming like Vex's (or is it Junky's?) dreaming accountant's key to changing the world; the search for the shining key in lieu of doing the very un-glamorous day to day labor can serve as an obstacle from ever really achieving anything at all.
97
Or Kill Me / Re: You're not conscious
« Last post by Mesozoic Mister Nigel on April 26, 2017, 02:31:00 pm »
I do have to say, I don't buy into any "enlightenment" models of consciousness, at all. I don't think there is a higher state of consciousness, nor do I believe that most of us live our lives in a suboptimal state. I think that most of us don't spend enough time thinking rationally or methodically during the perfectly whole aware times we already experience. There just isn't any evidence for this mythical higher level of consciousness.

But, I may be getting hung up on the layers of mystical obfuscation. It's possible that what you mean by "awareness" is vastly less occluded than it seems.

That said, it seems to me that the real challenge for most people is not accomplishing a higher state of awareness or attaining conscious performance of tasks that have long since been relegated to automatic control, but rather, learning to be comfortable just existing in one's own skin. Attaining a state of contentment with being alone with the self. Becoming at home existing with the memories and thoughts that flow through constantly as a side-effect of multiple network emergent property of consciousness.
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Headhunter at local company contacted me via linked in saying how awesome it'd be if I worked there given my experience .  I apply for grins and didn't fill out optional portions (resume and college transcript) because it said it linked with my linked in profile.

They're ok without the resume but they really need the transcript.

The transcript for a degree unrelated to the job from 12 years ago. 

K

That's weird. What do they need the transcript for, if you have the degree?

Well, GPA was a grand filter about 10 years ago when they had paper applications for fresh out of college students.  They want people with "Academic Excellence."

Shouldn't be relevant for people currently working, but apparently they don't usually hire those already working in the field. 

Bit paranoid about how they talk about their benefits how they have a paid month sabbatical every 5 years.  I just want to know how many vacation days a year they have, it's nowhere on their benefits site.  Heard stories about their campus being awesome for the sole purpose of keeping people on campus all the time.

Ah, that makes sense. They're just incompetent and potentially malicious.
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Literate Chaotic / Re: ITT: Original Story Ideas
« Last post by Roko's Modern Basilisk on April 26, 2017, 02:08:03 pm »
Close encounters are screen memories for the transition between substantially similar parallel timelines, and the degree to which the screen memory is strange is proportional to the difference between that person's home dimension and their destination. People with many alien abduction experiences are confused because reality keeps changing under them. Scientists discover that, by modulating a strong electromagnetic field using a device similar to an MRI machine, they can trigger such an experience and cause a person to swap places with their double in another timeline -- but most modulation patterns don't work, because the number of viable timelines keeps shrinking. Around the same time, scientists in these doomed timelines (on the brink of nuclear war or worse) discover the same technique, flooding our timeline with impostors.
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Behold my face of total and utter surprise.

From a quick google, I can't find much about fisher on a personal level. I do hope he's married because that's an incredible divorce waiting to happen now. With any luck this will kill his political career. I'm not putting any money on that though. Seems around 50% of the US, both sexes, agree with this line of horseshit.
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