Who is 'Us'?

[Cain]

Syllopsis?  Is that it?

Sophilism.

Remove the 'h'.  You may have got it mixed in with Sophists, who were just trolling IRL.

[B_M_W]

Sorry. Spelling is not my strong point.

[Cain]

NP.  I had to use Google to check, and even then I only know about Sophism because I used to belong to a site based on it.  Indirectly led me here too.  They linked to occultforums and I went over for shits and giggles, then found the link to this place.

[P3nT4gR4m]

i dont think there is excess in deconstructing

the more you dismantle, the better you understand the components

the better you understand the components, the better you can build

I disagree.  The more you dismantle, the more people go into the "tragically hip nihilism" where they start spouting complete and utter bullshit about textual narratives and end up finding no reasons to bother to rebuild.  Or anything else you may value.  It becomes another reason to do nothing, taken to its logical conclusion.

Not sure if that's a gneral rule or just an observation of a significan fraction.

Thats true.  I'm probably jaded from my brief time as a philosophy student.  But there are a lot of them.  Thats why I tend to Abdurdism/Existentialism of the Camus or early Satre sort, as it acknowledges the lack of meaning without going on what seems to end up in a self-destructive and pointless exercise.

LOL - I know what you mean. Most nihillists give nihillism a bad name.

*edit* just had another brainfart - Many of the sheep understand some pretty radical philosophy whilst managing to remain sheep.

[AFK]

Unfortunately I got pulled away from this to, *gasp* *shock* do work.  While I was supposed to be doing something else I started to sort of sketch out the sheep/flocking idea and soon realised that I couldn't.  I guess my original premise came from that oft used phrase "stick apart".  And, it just seems that no one can ever truly "stick apart" all by themselves.  You are always part of a flock, which is what "us" sometimes is used for.  The "us" flock vs. the "them" flock.  That's when I realize the sheep metaphor is probably quite inappropriate because sheep (domesticated ones anyway) generally are more willing to stick together as a single collective than humans are.  We harbor grudges, we are offended by odors, we are offended by the shapes of eyes, we seem to be way more judgemental than sheep. 

[Jenne]

We harbor grudges, we are offended by odors, we are offended by the shapes of eyes, we seem to be way more judgemental than sheep.

Where's BMW to debunk that little nugget? 

For, I have a feeling we are more like sheep than we aren't in judgments in everyday life.  For, sheep probably know their fellow sheep by smell, shape of butt, and make judgments on where to graze everyday...

[Cain]

*edit* just had another brainfart - Many of the sheep understand some pretty radical philosophy whilst managing to remain sheep.

Yeah.  I mean, look at the Modernists at the start of the previous century. There was a wide ranged intellectual revolt which spawned the Surrealists, Absurdists, Dada and a whole host of other things in psychology and philosophy.  But it was ultimately betrayed.  Sartre turned to Marxism, Heidegger Fascism.  Psychoanalysis became a tool to set a standard by which others could be made outcasts.  Postmodernism moved from a genuinely useful tool of undermining tyrannical systems to a tool of them, for example with Foucault's pandering to Khomeini.

Thats one of the reasons I've decided to read The Rebel currently.  Not only was Camus one of the few who never betrayed his principals and beliefs (hated Communists, fought Nazis, despised dictators) but he also understood the implicit irony of the revolutionary turned oppressor.  Thats why he wrote the Rebel, in part, so I'm seeking insight on that ground.

[P3nT4gR4m]

We harbor grudges, we are offended by odors, we are offended by the shapes of eyes, we seem to be way more judgemental than sheep.

Where's BMW to debunk that little nugget? 

For, I have a feeling we are more like sheep than we aren't in judgments in everyday life.  For, sheep probably know their fellow sheep by smell, shape of butt, and make judgments on where to graze everyday...

You only have to analyse crowd behaviour to see it in action.

[B_M_W]

We harbor grudges, we are offended by odors, we are offended by the shapes of eyes, we seem to be way more judgemental than sheep.

Where's BMW to debunk that little nugget? 

For, I have a feeling we are more like sheep than we aren't in judgments in everyday life.  For, sheep probably know their fellow sheep by smell, shape of butt, and make judgments on where to graze everyday...

All mammals make preference, when it comes to feeding, when it comes to mating, those that live together have highly social behaviors, which include outcasting individuals. Humans just have more psychology behind it.

[LHX]

i dont think there is excess in deconstructing

the more you dismantle, the better you understand the components

the better you understand the components, the better you can build

I disagree.  The more you dismantle, the more people go into the "tragically hip nihilism" where they start spouting complete and utter bullshit about textual narratives and end up finding no reasons to bother to rebuild.  Or anything else you may value.  It becomes another reason to do nothing, taken to its logical conclusion.

i counter-disagree

these discussions are a testament to the fact that deconstruction can continue and stay grounded

[Cain]

Yeah, we can.  But most merehumes will start wailing about the void in their soul, wearing black and become Marxist capitalists.

[Thurnez Isa]

Yeah, we can.  But most merehumes will start wailing about the void in their soul, wearing black and become Marxist capitalists.

Cain you actually think most of those people actually know anything about Marxism, other then its makes them sound rebellious?

[P3nT4gR4m]

Yeah, we can.  But most merehumes will start wailing about the void in their soul, wearing black and become Marxist capitalists.

It's a stage many go through and, maybe, even less ever get over. I'd still say they were closer to the goal for recognising the cage. Jailbreak aint a one-step process.

[Cain]

Yeah, we can.  But most merehumes will start wailing about the void in their soul, wearing black and become Marxist capitalists.

Cain you actually think most of those people actually know anything about Marxism, other then its makes them sound rebellious?

Yes.

[Mourning Star]

Hmm...

The works of Ayn Rand, both her fiction and non-fiction I think have had a significant impact on my views, egoism/objectivism, her whole philosophy of the individual being the greatest of all beings, selfishness as a virtue...  Not the selfishness for material goods or money, but to truly do the things you do, only for yourself, completely without care for the opinions and views of others.

The ideas behind Marxism seem noble at first glance, but when you get right down to it, all it will ultimately create is stagnation.  A totalitarian system, while notorious for their elimination of civil liberties, are generally stable financially, but also lead towards stagnation of ideas and innovation...  Democracy (true democracy, not necessarily a 'democratic republic') is probably the worst of all, because it implies that all opinions and all persons are essentially equal, this type of groupthink accomplishes nothing, individuals accomplish things, committees just talk incessantly about getting things accomplished, but don't actually do it.

I have to agree with the ideas thrown out by RAW in Illuminatus!  true Laissez Faire capitalism paired with a governmental structure bordering on anarchy, provide a basic law set of "Don't rape, rob, or kill" and otherwise stay the fuck out of the people's way, don't meddle in business, and generally allow people to make their own decisions about their lives...

Yeah, this definitely is a neo-utopian idealist view, and is impractical, and sadly wouldn't work, because we don't live in a society of sane, rationally thinking people...  But it seems the most conducive to evolution of the human species...

in my most humble of opinions...