Stirring the Shit

[AFK]

RWHN says than people without ambition and motivation (which may be loaded terms) see those blocks as permanent and externally imposed.

But again, I think lack of ambition and motivation are potentials in EVERYONE.  I'm thinking of it in more episodic terms, rather than epidemic.  

[LMNO]

We Are All Grey.





Sometimes.

[AFK]

I'm getting a feeling you're both saying the same thing.

Jenne, you seem to be saying the social and parental blocks that are set up are hard to get around.

RWHN says than people without ambition and motivation (which may be loaded terms) see those blocks as permanent and externally imposed.

I think that's pretty much the same thing.

Ok...then I guess I totally misunderstoon RWHN.    My apologies.

It's most likely my fault.  I've been in strategic planning sessions all morning so my mind is still going a mile a minute.  I'm sure I'm not adequately conveying what I'm actually thinking.  

[Jenne]

RWHN says than people without ambition and motivation (which may be loaded terms) see those blocks as permanent and externally imposed.

But again, I think lack of ambition and motivation are potentials in EVERYONE.  I'm thinking of it in more episodic terms, rather than epidemic.  

Or endemic.  I think a lot of the memes here presuppose that idea.

[Adios]

Jenne -
You bring an interesting point about how we get along with others.  One of the difficult things about having a successful relationship, for me at least, is coming to terms with the fact that you must share some of the 'bars' in your prison with your partner.  Even if they are particularly restrictive in your opinion, or make you uncomfortable. You have to be prepared to adapt to having those around now, as well as to having new ones you hadn't considered before, or even old ones you had already gotten past.

So, if saying your BIP is constructed with restraints you place on yourself is only half the story, then it's also not totally accurate to say you're responsible for breaking yourself out, at least not if you want to maintain relationships with people around you.

This also touches on Prof Cram's point about culture in general being a set of prepackaged BIP restraints.  Maybe it does take a total rejection of culture to be free from its false dichotomies, but if you work with others on a few common bars you share, then you begin affecting the culture at large.

I'm rambling, sorry.

Doesn't everything and everyone we are in contact or a relationship add to the bars? Rules of society, following the law when necessary, etc. A lot of things are out of our personal control. Even abandoning society and hiding in the mountains would have it's bars. In reality it is inescapable, but we can control parts, to shape certain things.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Funny thing is the bip is a necessity. It's another reason why I think of the name as being too much of a negative connotation but, at the same time it kind of became that so maybe its a phase that we're just now, perhaps, seeing the end of.

Think back ...

Back to when there was no law or society or any of that shit (the man made part of the prison) Just a bunch of apes running around, free to do whatever the fuck they pleased.

Our monkey friends had three options. Try to be the smallest, slowest, most successful predator in the surrounding area, be predated upon or group together and use the safety in numbers approach to survival.

I don't need BMW to remind me that this imperative was already in place before the homos went sapien but I'm telling a story here so fuck it.

Now these early societies were composed of small groups who relied on each other for pretty much everything. Continued survival depended on a bunch of primitives getting along and coordinating their actions.

At first this was a messy affair and there was a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth. Males fought for dominance and the smaller, less aggressive females were generally chucked about whenever the top dog felt it was time to get rid of a load.

Slowly but surely, over time, these smart little monkey tribes grew and grew by a process much faster than darwin's evolution but bearing striking resemblances in execution, nonetheless

This is the point where the Human facet of the BIP was born. Laws appeared, tentatively at first, to prevent behaviour which was deemed destructive to the group in general.

Somewhere along the line these laws became accepted as reality which is quite a shock when you examine some of the early ones. We've all heard stories about virgin sacrifice to the point where the term means nothing more than a clich?©, a joke. But that's not the way the monkeys saw it.

Fast forward a couple of thousand years and holy shit if the whole thing hasn't become retarded beyond belief. The smart monkeys have seized power from the stoopids and they have them building huge edifices to made up cartoon characters and obeying divine mandate because, for some reason, invisible man law carrys much more clout that monkey law (which it actually is when it comes right down to it)

Society grew out of this, not in accordance with invisible guy's divine agenda as has been maintained, but rather by that semi darwinistic process described previously - the most effective line in bullshit and pure brute strength endured.

Fast forward another couple of thousand years. There have been monkeys in space. Monkeys have accomplished feats of engineering and art that are truly breathtaking but monkeys are still ensconced in this prison they have built for themselves and a lot of them are so imprinted that their whole world would fall apart if they were ever forced into a position where they had to actually think for themselves.

Slowly but surely some monkeys are realising this fact. Some of them are angry about it, others just laugh but, if the trend keeps up like this, eventually there may come a time where most monkeys are in this enlightened position.

Until then I say gas the cabbages it'll help speed the process up 

[Jenne]

I think we shape our vision but yet we still continue to live in the BIP.  Our view and how we treat it and others is what's truly changeable.

[LMNO]

Doesn't everything and everyone we are in contact or a relationship add to the bars? Rules of society, following the law when necessary, etc. A lot of things are out of our personal control. Even abandoning society and hiding in the mountains would have it's bars. In reality it is inescapable, but we can control parts, to shape certain things.

Remember point 5 from the Notice of Compulsory Immumination:  You Agree Not To Obey Laws Simply Because They Are On The Books.

[Adios]

Doesn't everything and everyone we are in contact or a relationship add to the bars? Rules of society, following the law when necessary, etc. A lot of things are out of our personal control. Even abandoning society and hiding in the mountains would have it's bars. In reality it is inescapable, but we can control parts, to shape certain things.

Remember point 5 from the Notice of Compulsory Immumination:  You Agree Not To Obey Laws Simply Because They Are On The Books.

Agreed, but at the same time if a cop is standing there I'm not going to piss on the annoying guys leg.If the cop and no witnesses are around that could easily happen.

[LMNO]

That fits perfectly in line with #5, if you ask me.

You have a reason to follow the law (gonna get caught & punished), then follow the law.

[Adios]

One reply at MA. I think it scared them. 

[Triple Zero]

In holland (I think - it's near there anyway) the age of consensual sex is 14.

it's 16 afaik.

also, an added restriction is that it is still illegal if there is any sort of power-relationship between the two, such as teacher-student, doctor-patient, stuff like that. a teacher can have sex with a student if the student and the teacher are both at least 18.

we had a political party that wanted to lower the age of consent to 12, but since not enough ppl actually dared to publicly sign for that party (a requirement for a party to be able to be voted for) it never got off the ground. that, and the public stigma of being "the pedo party" (they had some other very interesting radical ideas besides this as well, but those did not get nearly as much attention).

[Jenne]

One reply at MA. I think it scared them. 

More of a thread up there now...DS answered.  It was a great idea to put that up on there, Hawk.  Kudos!

[Adios]

Thanks Jenne, maybe it will get others involved as well.

[Adios]

LMNO joined, now it's starting to roll nicely.