Author Topic: Core Themes of Discordia  (Read 41310 times)

LMNO

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Re: Core Themes of Discordia
« Reply #30 on: June 28, 2007, 03:36:58 pm »
Although I like the model of the 8-circuit, I'm finding it increasingly uncomfortable to act as if that's what's really goin on in our heads.  The lack of evidence of the circuits, and the devotion some people feel about it reminds me all too much of the scientologists and theire "reactive mind" bit.

And if we talk about semantics, we should probably dress it up in a different suit.  A lot of people are immediately turned off when they hear the word.


By all means, Fort, write away!

Cramulus

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Re: Core Themes of Discordia
« Reply #31 on: June 28, 2007, 03:43:56 pm »
Yeh, fair enough from that point of view. In that case, I would suggest the inclusion of further discussion on:
The 8 circuit model of human consciousness
Alfred Korzybski's General Semantics

I agree with you, I think those things are totally useful to the average person.
I also agree with what LMNO just said - that there's a danger of thinking that the 8-circuit model is how things "really" work. It's ironic that a lot of 8-circuit people get caught up in the model worship which that very system is warning us about.

Trying to push this in a fresh direction -
How could one integrate the 8-circuit model with the classic Discordian High Madness? What is core to the 8-circuit model which is also (remaining in line with the OP) a Core Theme of Discordia?


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Re: Core Themes of Discordia
« Reply #32 on: June 28, 2007, 03:45:33 pm »
For me, it's the primate territorialism (Circuits 1-4) combined with its opposite (Circuits 5-8)

Biggest flaw: curcuits 7-8 are so far out there, they might as well be science fiction.

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Re: Core Themes of Discordia
« Reply #33 on: June 28, 2007, 03:56:18 pm »
Biggest flaw: curcuits 7-8 are so far out there, they might as well be science fiction.

Random thought - oddly enough, based on your typo:

what about dressing it up as the 8-circus model?

an 8-ring circus--


there's a scene in each ring which is typical of that circuit.


In the first ring everyone's trying to survive

In the second ring the musclemen are bossing around each other

The third ring is a college lecture which is attempting to explain all the chaos going on, etc


there could be a "saint" for each circuit - a sort of internal mystical figure to appeal to when you need help (following through with the religion/joke motif)

and of course the masked ringmaster is ....the self!
« Last Edit: June 28, 2007, 03:59:59 pm by Professor Cramulus »

LMNO

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Re: Core Themes of Discordia
« Reply #34 on: June 28, 2007, 03:58:06 pm »
WHO IS NUMBER ONE?
  \

Forteetu

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Re: Core Themes of Discordia
« Reply #35 on: June 28, 2007, 03:59:29 pm »
Although I like the model of the 8-circuit, I'm finding it increasingly uncomfortable to act as if that's what's really goin on in our heads.  The lack of evidence of the circuits, and the devotion some people feel about it reminds me all too much of the scientologists and theire "reactive mind" bit.

And if we talk about semantics, we should probably dress it up in a different suit.  A lot of people are immediately turned off when they hear the word.


By all means, Fort, write away!

I agree with you in some ways about over-devotion to the 8-circuit model, and also that it isn't "really" what's going on. The map is not the territory. To me the model is a good way to get started and general semantics keeps one grounded in the frame that ANY map you create for yourself still isn't whats "really" happening. Doesn't mean you don't still need a map. And I believe that the 8-circuit model is intrinsically tied to RAW and works of Discord, so its a definite front runner for the model to be used as a jump point.



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Cramulus

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Re: Core Themes of Discordia
« Reply #36 on: June 28, 2007, 04:02:42 pm »
And I believe that the 8-circuit model is intrinsically tied to RAW and works of Discord, so its a definite front runner for the model to be used as a jump point.

certainly true

Myself, I'm trying to avoid RAW hero worship. He's gone and Discordia is ours now. If Discordia only grows in RAW directions, it's going to reach a dead end eventually.

don't get me wrong, I do think the 8-circuit model is important to us.
I just don't want to find myself fine-tooth-combing RAW's life story trying to find other material for my religion

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Re: Core Themes of Discordia
« Reply #37 on: June 29, 2007, 04:07:59 pm »
what is "general semantics" ?

i probably read about it and know it already, just have no idea what the term is referring to?
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Re: Core Themes of Discordia
« Reply #38 on: June 29, 2007, 04:17:12 pm »
what is "general semantics" ?

i probably read about it and know it already, just have no idea what the term is referring to?

General Semantics, fathered by Korzybski, is a push to use language in a precise objective way. It's what led to e-prime.

In short (really short) it suggests that we should stop saying that things "are" something else. For example, a statement like "The PD Forums are full of cock and repost" contains fallacies because parts of it are cock and repost, but it's not 100% cock&repost 100% of the time, as the sentence implies.

the phrase "the map is not the territory" is part of this body of thought.

I'm sure some of the MaybeLogic people around here can explain better. I'm unclear on the difference between e-prime and general semantics.

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Re: Core Themes of Discordia
« Reply #39 on: June 29, 2007, 05:51:53 pm »
In short (really short) it suggests that we should stop saying that things "are" something else. For example, a statement like "The PD Forums are full of cock and repost" contains fallacies because parts of it are cock and repost, but it's not 100% cock&repost 100% of the time, as the sentence implies.

the phrase "the map is not the territory" is part of this body of thought.

I'm sure some of the MaybeLogic people around here can explain better. I'm unclear on the difference between e-prime and general semantics.


Yeh, that's the brunt of it. I see it as the realization that our use of language has HUGE impact on our perception of reality. Language is a primary factor in our interaction and interpretation of our world. So how much do we realise our own use of language is reinforcing restrictions or un-supported beliefs? How self-defeatist, or contradictory, or whatever else ... is our use of language? General semantics, to me, is a study of how we perceive and influence our own use of language and how that in turn changes our reality.

In discussions on this subject RAW (I think it was him I heard say it) made mention that it was easier to discuss issues of quantum physics in the native american indian language of Hope'. The langauge and its relation to the universe simply made it easier to discuss.

As in e-prime, making the change from "The chair is wood." to "The chair appears wood." seems minor, but has incredible implications when applied consistently.

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Re: Core Themes of Discordia
« Reply #40 on: June 29, 2007, 06:43:05 pm »
In the vein of RAW hero worship:

maybe we should endevor to thwart this in the first-strike way,
by creating a completely fictitious biography of him for those that
would try to investigate his life for , blah blah blah.

[irony] it seems like something he would do/want.

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8-circuit Mottle:
[in the event that someone is in question or dispute about what "the" modle is
go here: http://deoxy.org/8circuit.htm]

now, the problems for 7 and 8 are?

with the non-local 8th circuit, i see the obvious impirical obsticles.
(to me, it basically tastes like Satori)

the 7th, neurogenetic, though is garnering scraps and bits of objectivish,
seemingly coherent, but still disjointed pieces of supporting evidence.
the genetic tape, in-and-of-itself is a memory/data-base. it could be more
than possible to become aware of the specific electromagnetic orientation
that creates the syntax of your genome, and view it in some subjective manner.

of course, this is idle speculation, as i have no method to deliver results.
and the reason i started this off with the phrase "---mottle" is that each successive
circuit you arrive at MUST NEED the previous circuits; whereby, the circuit would not be something to be thought of independantly.

if someone had some outlandish trip on DMT/Harmala concoction, that activated
aspects of their awareness that are characteristic of the "7th," wouldn't their
1-4(maybe5) circuits tinge and tint and, perhaps, direct everything successive?

not to even mention the 6th circuit. i won't argue with the concept of increasing self awareness, and thereby achieving greater ease in self-change, but it begs too many questions and enters an infinite regress. can you reprogram the part of your that is capable of reprogramming yourself? how? in what way(s)? in better language: can you alter the manner in which you make alterations?

i have no answers.
Ya' stupid Yank.

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Re: Core Themes of Discordia
« Reply #41 on: June 29, 2007, 07:36:04 pm »
In discussions on this subject RAW (I think it was him I heard say it) made mention that it was easier to discuss issues of quantum physics in the native american indian language of Hope'. The langauge and its relation to the universe simply made it easier to discuss.

RAW said some very far-fetched and untrue things about quantum physics, so i advise you to take this as well with a grain of salt.

for example, Quantum Mechanica basically created a very new branch of mathematics, a new language in a way, and it is still fucking hard to discuss, even in the language specifically designed for it.

(as i heard from friends who had to take courses in it, the basic thing physics and astronomy students learn about Quantum Physics is this new type of math. no practical examples or whatever, as long as you can keep your head straight while wrapping your tensors around the wave equation (or something), it's bound to come in handy a few years later when you're actually (still not) learning about practical stuff)
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LHX

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Re: Core Themes of Discordia
« Reply #42 on: June 30, 2007, 12:40:09 am »
this thread is good


LMNO's debunking is full of win
neat hell

Slarti

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Re: Core Themes of Discordia
« Reply #43 on: June 30, 2007, 01:28:30 am »
In many ways, I have the same feelings for the Principia as I do Illuminatus!.

Both created long-lasting bubbles in my pineal gland which has caused infinite merry spirals and subspirals in my life.

But in rereading Illuminatus, I can't help but feel it's a little outdated. The details of the revolution that Wilson talked about involved things like white men sleeping with black women. His characters thought that was pretty kinky. Hippies learning to sympathize with cops. etc.

I grew up with parents who grew up in the 60s (though were not hippies). Peace love and understanding were in the background of my childhood, so Wilson & Shea's revolution doesn't seem that shocking to me as it might have on their original audience.

Then the Principia -- same thing. I feel like the core "religion disguised as a joke / joke disguised as a religion" was probably very fresh in the 60s, but we're living in the era of subgenii, pastafarians, last tuesdayists, cthulhu cults, and all sorts of other malarky. If Discordia is going to bloom in the coming decades, it needs a fresh coat of paint.

Are we the ones who will give it that? It would be kind of egotistical to think so, and probably not. But there are some memetic masterminds here, and I feel that the snowball which becomes an avalanche could very well be thrown here on this forum.

So whether we "rewrite the PD" or masturbate about the black iron prison or just post retarded MS Paint pictures, I think this is the place to be.


okay i jumped into this thread late but feel the need to applaud this post for being more full of win than anything i've read this week.

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Re: Core Themes of Discordia
« Reply #44 on: June 30, 2007, 04:21:48 am »
now, the problems for 7 and 8 are?

with the non-local 8th circuit, i see the obvious impirical obsticles.
(to me, it basically tastes like Satori)

the 7th, neurogenetic, though is garnering scraps and bits of objectivish,
seemingly coherent, but still disjointed pieces of supporting evidence.
the genetic tape, in-and-of-itself is a memory/data-base. it could be more
than possible to become aware of the specific electromagnetic orientation
that creates the syntax of your genome, and view it in some subjective manner.

of course, this is idle speculation, as i have no method to deliver results.
and the reason i started this off with the phrase "---mottle" is that each successive
circuit you arrive at MUST NEED the previous circuits; whereby, the circuit would not be something to be thought of independantly.

if someone had some outlandish trip on DMT/Harmala concoction, that activated
aspects of their awareness that are characteristic of the "7th," wouldn't their
1-4(maybe5) circuits tinge and tint and, perhaps, direct everything successive?

not to even mention the 6th circuit. i won't argue with the concept of increasing self awareness, and thereby achieving greater ease in self-change, but it begs too many questions and enters an infinite regress. can you reprogram the part of your that is capable of reprogramming yourself? how? in what way(s)? in better language: can you alter the manner in which you make alterations?

i have no answers.

I can honestly say that I do not believe I have ever had a 7th circuit experience, one I would refer to as being able to tap the Akashic records. I'll limit any of my expression on the 7th and 8th as total theory and conjecture as I have no first hand experience to deal with.

As for the 6th, can the programmer be re-programmed? Of this, I do have first hand experience over the past 10 years or so of personal development. To this I say HELL YES! and I would refer you to RAW's discourse on "Who is the Master?" also available on YouTUBE in a clip (blogged on my MySpace for easy reference). Self-programming is a recursive function by definition.

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