Author Topic: e-prime sucks and so do you.  (Read 17165 times)

Forteetu

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Re: e-prime sucks and so do you.
« Reply #45 on: July 18, 2007, 05:44:45 am »

I tend to try and keep things pretty simple. e-prime for me is just anothert tool in the kit to use when it suits or serves some purpose to me. I tend to agree along the lines of Rat and Rza, more than anything it is a way to cross-check my own thinking.

When I start getting worked up about something, when those intense feelings start to rise in discussions and debates, that to me is trigger to start applying some simple concepts of e-prime to make sure I'm not rolling down the slippery slope. The basis to me is to start eliminating the word "is" in my own thoughts, if not so much in what I'm actually saying. To me it simply helps keep some objective oversite.

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tyrannosaurus vex

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Re: e-prime sucks and so do you.
« Reply #46 on: July 18, 2007, 06:06:33 am »
Official Spokesman for E-Prime:

THAT DEPENDS!
\
Evil and Unfeeling Arse-Flenser From The City of the Damned.

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Re: e-prime sucks and so do you.
« Reply #47 on: July 18, 2007, 01:22:49 pm »
Hopeless.
“Soon all of us will have special names” — Professor Brian O’Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." — Bob Dylan?

"Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes" — Walt Whitman

LHX

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Re: e-prime sucks and so do you.
« Reply #48 on: July 18, 2007, 01:26:11 pm »
often a person can find themself liable to be understood

but even though there can be some
there is no need to blow it out of proportion and say one half is 80% of the other 3


when it comes to e-prime
i dont think anybody can
neat hell

B_M_W

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Re: e-prime sucks and so do you.
« Reply #49 on: July 19, 2007, 01:03:40 pm »
If you use e' in your results section of a scientific paper, no professional scientist will take your seriously.

Just sayin.
One by one, we break the sheep from their Iron Bar Prisons and expand their imaginations, make them think for themselves. In turn, they break more from their prisons. Eventually, critical mass is reached. Our key word: Resolve. Evangelize with compassion and determination. And realize that there will be few in the beginning. We are hand picking our successors. They are the future of Discordianism. Let us guide our future with intelligence.

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Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

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Re: e-prime sucks and so do you.
« Reply #50 on: July 19, 2007, 02:45:08 pm »
If you use e' in your results section of a scientific paper, no professional scientist will take your seriously.

Just sayin.

Of course not... but if you use e' internally when developing the paper, it may help you shy away from unnecessary assumptions. (Not that some scientists don't already do such a thing... but I know a few who might benefit from questioning their own assumptions occasionally)
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Re: e-prime sucks and so do you.
« Reply #51 on: July 19, 2007, 03:48:11 pm »
Of course, we should always keep in mind that Scientists =/= Science.

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

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Re: e-prime sucks and so do you.
« Reply #52 on: July 19, 2007, 03:51:27 pm »
Of course, we should always keep in mind that Scientists =/= Science.

w00t! True Dat!
- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

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Re: e-prime sucks and so do you.
« Reply #53 on: July 19, 2007, 06:42:56 pm »
If you use e' in your results section of a scientific paper, no professional scientist will take your seriously.

Just sayin.

You don't need to anyway.  All you've gotta do is tack on "further research is recommended" to the end of your paper and you've got it covered anyway.  At least, that's how we do it in the social sciences. 
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Jasper

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Re: e-prime sucks and so do you.
« Reply #54 on: July 19, 2007, 06:46:29 pm »
Everyone read the new Scientific American article on memory coding.

B_M_W

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Re: e-prime sucks and so do you.
« Reply #55 on: July 20, 2007, 01:06:44 pm »
If you use e' in your results section of a scientific paper, no professional scientist will take your seriously.

Just sayin.

Of course not... but if you use e' internally when developing the paper, it may help you shy away from unnecessary assumptions. (Not that some scientists don't already do such a thing... but I know a few who might benefit from questioning their own assumptions occasionally)

Actually, when you are reporting the results of the paper, not the conclusions, something  compltly different, there should not be any subjective reasoning involved. That section of the paper should be statements like "5 individuals were randomly chosen to recieve treatment, matched with 5 control individuals with weight and condition within one unit of each other", and "42.3% of individuals grew more than .5 mm over 72 hours". It should not read like, "It seems as though 5 individuals may have possibly been randomly chosen to recieve treatment, which from my subjective opinion may have been matched with control individuals with what looked like to me to be about the same weight and conditions", or " From what was subjectively assumed, 42.3% looked like they grew over half an inch over 3 days, from my reconing."

I repeat again, if you report results in e', you will not be taken seriously, at least in biology. I don't know what sorts of standards are in the "soft" sciences, but I'm sure it can't be different.
One by one, we break the sheep from their Iron Bar Prisons and expand their imaginations, make them think for themselves. In turn, they break more from their prisons. Eventually, critical mass is reached. Our key word: Resolve. Evangelize with compassion and determination. And realize that there will be few in the beginning. We are hand picking our successors. They are the future of Discordianism. Let us guide our future with intelligence.

     --Reverse Brainwashing: A Guide http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=9801.0


6.5 billion Buddhas walking around.

99.xxxxxxx% forgot they are Buddha.

Cain

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Re: e-prime sucks and so do you.
« Reply #56 on: July 20, 2007, 01:13:16 pm »
Its not.  Social sciences use the same methods, it is just the conclusions are less firm, what with the amount of factors you have to try and control or account for.

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

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Re: e-prime sucks and so do you.
« Reply #57 on: July 20, 2007, 02:37:03 pm »
If you use e' in your results section of a scientific paper, no professional scientist will take your seriously.

Just sayin.

Of course not... but if you use e' internally when developing the paper, it may help you shy away from unnecessary assumptions. (Not that some scientists don't already do such a thing... but I know a few who might benefit from questioning their own assumptions occasionally)

Actually, when you are reporting the results of the paper, not the conclusions, something  compltly different, there should not be any subjective reasoning involved. That section of the paper should be statements like "5 individuals were randomly chosen to recieve treatment, matched with 5 control individuals with weight and condition within one unit of each other", and "42.3% of individuals grew more than .5 mm over 72 hours". It should not read like, "It seems as though 5 individuals may have possibly been randomly chosen to recieve treatment, which from my subjective opinion may have been matched with control individuals with what looked like to me to be about the same weight and conditions", or " From what was subjectively assumed, 42.3% looked like they grew over half an inch over 3 days, from my reconing."

I repeat again, if you report results in e', you will not be taken seriously, at least in biology. I don't know what sorts of standards are in the "soft" sciences, but I'm sure it can't be different.

Yep, no map appears useful for all the territory, as far as I can tell. ;-)
- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

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Re: e-prime sucks and so do you.
« Reply #58 on: July 20, 2007, 06:04:25 pm »
Its not.  Social sciences use the same methods, it is just the conclusions are less firm, what with the amount of factors you have to try and control or account for.

Yeah, I didn't think so.
One by one, we break the sheep from their Iron Bar Prisons and expand their imaginations, make them think for themselves. In turn, they break more from their prisons. Eventually, critical mass is reached. Our key word: Resolve. Evangelize with compassion and determination. And realize that there will be few in the beginning. We are hand picking our successors. They are the future of Discordianism. Let us guide our future with intelligence.

     --Reverse Brainwashing: A Guide http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=9801.0


6.5 billion Buddhas walking around.

99.xxxxxxx% forgot they are Buddha.

AFK

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Re: e-prime sucks and so do you.
« Reply #59 on: July 20, 2007, 06:19:00 pm »
Its not.  Social sciences use the same methods, it is just the conclusions are less firm, what with the amount of factors you have to try and control or account for.

absolute troof.  It can be quite difficult when there are so many variables and factors to control for.  For example, in my field of research which is substance abuse.  There are so many things that go into it.  Economy, family history, law enforcement, advertising, supply, etc., etc.,  When you do the research, you can definitely gleem influences, and there are some things you can nail down.  But, invariably, for every question you answer, you create 5 more to be answered.  But at the same time, you have to be firm in your research, you can't just say, well we think this is what's going on but we could be wrong.  No one wants to fund that shit. 
Cynicism is a blank check for failure.