Author Topic: The Good Book  (Read 39576 times)

The Littlest Ubermensch

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Re: The Good Book
« Reply #105 on: July 22, 2007, 04:02:45 am »
Also I typically go by 'zhe'.

 I'm pretty sure this has been stated before (and I totally missed it/don't remember anything) but...why "zhe"?
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Kaienne

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Re: The Good Book
« Reply #106 on: July 22, 2007, 04:28:16 am »
'Cos I'm an androgyne, and zhe (also; zhir) is a nice, gender-neutral pronoun, and one that sounds aesthetically pleasing to me.
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The Littlest Ubermensch

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Re: The Good Book
« Reply #107 on: July 22, 2007, 05:05:03 am »
Okay.

How exactly can one be androgynous? Is it a matter of personality or biology (biology beyond the brain, that is)?

Sorry if that's too prying, I'm just curious.
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Kaienne

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Re: The Good Book
« Reply #108 on: July 22, 2007, 05:08:57 am »
When complete strangers stop in the middle of the street to ask, "Are you a boy or a girl?", that's how one can be androgynous.

The low dose of hormones helps, too.
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Re: The Good Book
« Reply #109 on: July 22, 2007, 05:56:57 am »
Mmkay. I suppose I sort of kind of get it.
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Re: The Good Book
« Reply #110 on: July 22, 2007, 07:08:32 am »
While I completely respect anyone's right to live and act as whichever gender they see fit (even ones that haven't been invented yet), I don't think it's reasonable to expect other people to change their lingustic framework over it, especially to the point of using a word that doesn't exist.

If I saw someone fucking with you on the street because you live outside western society's gender norms, I'd have your back, but I'll still call you either "he" or "she" while I'm doing so.
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Cain

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Re: The Good Book
« Reply #111 on: July 22, 2007, 11:52:11 am »
STOP BEING SO ARISTOTLEAN! 

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Re: The Good Book
« Reply #112 on: July 22, 2007, 02:24:46 pm »
While I completely respect anyone's right to live and act as whichever gender they see fit (even ones that haven't been invented yet), I don't think it's reasonable to expect other people to change their lingustic framework over it, especially to the point of using a word that doesn't exist.

If I saw someone fucking with you on the street because you live outside western society's gender norms, I'd have your back, but I'll still call you either "he" or "she" while I'm doing so.

i was just about to say the same thing.

also, i really was under the impression you preferred to be called "she", and i was trying to respect that, but apparently i didn't pick it up when it was discussed in the genderfuckery thread.

'Cos I'm an androgyne, and zhe (also; zhir) is a nice, gender-neutral pronoun, and one that sounds aesthetically pleasing to me.

sorry, i don't want to have any of this "i'm having my own pronoun" shit. what does "zhe" and "zhir" mean anyway? are they based on english words?

what's the point if you're still having two of them?

and seriously what the fuck do you think you're doing to the language?? maybe it's because i'm dutch and my language is still using gendered and ungendered words, maybe also because i know some german, which is very hard because of all the male/female/ungendered words there.
would you really want to be refered to as "das Kaienne" in german? or do you want an extra rule for that as well? how about two of them? any idea what effect that's gonna have on declension tables and other such linguistic tricksiness?

you may not think that's a big deal, but asking me to add a new pronoun to my languages, kinda, for me. if it's really that important to you, you're gonna have to do a littlebit better than "typically i go by zhe".
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Kaienne

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Re: The Good Book
« Reply #113 on: July 22, 2007, 02:36:57 pm »
Then call me whatever you want. Call me shithead if it really tickles your rocks in just the right way. I call me zhe and the people I actually give two shits about call me zhe. You don't like it? You don't matter. Deal.
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Re: The Good Book
« Reply #114 on: July 22, 2007, 03:11:41 pm »
hey i asked some serious questions here.

so you won't give a shit about anybody who doesn't want to play your language games?

can't you understand this is a tough thing to do?

you're asking people to change their language, in order to gain your respect (or something)

also, doesn't english already have a genderless pronoun?
but that one doesn't sound "nice" enough for you? doesn't that make this whole game attention whoring?

or if "it" makes you feel like being compared to an inanimate object, isn't that your linguistic hangup with the language? couldn't you change your perception of the word "it" (or better even, change your perception of "he" and "she") instead of requiring everyone around you to reroute their linguistics specifically for you?

also, telling me i don't matter because i ask you to explain yourself is a bit weak, imo.
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Re: The Good Book
« Reply #115 on: July 22, 2007, 03:52:24 pm »
Hey guys, you both have the right to call eachother whatever the fuck you want.

Hard feelings are, of course, allowed, but it's really only a word, after all.

I will call you by whatever word I feel is appropriate at the time, not whatever word YOU think is appropriate.

And that is directed at both Trip0 and Kai, and also those of you who debate the use of E-prime.

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Cain

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Re: The Good Book
« Reply #116 on: July 22, 2007, 04:42:32 pm »
I dont mind a third pronoun for our androgyne members, but I wish it could be standardised.  You know, so there is just one word that is used, along with he/she.  Would make life much easier for all concerned.

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Re: The Good Book
« Reply #117 on: July 22, 2007, 04:48:27 pm »
i'll just use "Kaienne" from now on, if Kaienne doesn't appreciate "she".
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Payne

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Re: The Good Book
« Reply #118 on: July 22, 2007, 04:58:36 pm »
Well, David Brin has a standard, neutral pronoun in his books. Man.

With Males being called Mel's and Females called Fems.

Anything else (including sentient Chimps and Dolphins) are called Men.

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Re: The Good Book
« Reply #119 on: July 23, 2007, 12:05:55 am »
Hey guys, you both have the right to call eachother whatever the fuck you want.

Hard feelings are, of course, allowed, but it's really only a word, after all.

I will call you by whatever word I feel is appropriate at the time, not whatever word YOU think is appropriate.

And that is directed at both Trip0 and Kai, and also those of you who debate the use of E-prime.

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As long as one can communicate an idea, they can make whatever semantic symbols they want.
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