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[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

IQ is pretty arbitrary as anything except a measurement of a certain type of logic... however, just from observing and working with people, not everyone is very smart, and I feel bad for people who struggle in life simply because their allotted DNA didn't happen to land them much by way of cognitive skills. Some of them are people who are good, and try as hard as they can, and they read (but have a hard time understanding what seems obvious to others) and they do what they can to better themselves, but they are just NOT THAT SMART and they struggle, and are easily taken advantage of. Are you seriously ragging on me for having an iota of compassion for the truly dumb?

There are also truck-driving, hat-wearing, hooting assholes who could be doing better if they tried, but they already think they're perfect so they don't bother. No compassion for them. Nonetheless, as I said, I TRY TO TEMPER MY CONTEMPT WITH COMPASSION because some people have the bad luck to be BORN STUPID. You may choose to believe that nature has no influence over a person's adult cognitive abilities, but even if it's fetal alcohol syndrome or being neglected as a baby or being dropped on their heads that makes them irrecoverably stupid, I still feel bad for them, and fuck you if you think that makes me a worse person.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Speaking of people who have a difficult time with reading comprehension, I never said that YOU should try to temper YOUR contempt with compassion.

[Cramulus]

Wow, I couldn't disagree more. Not everyone lucks into brains, and the average IQ in America is 100. That's 20 points above retarded.

just to tag in here because I have a bachelors in this shit--

IQ ratings are based comparing one's test score vs the average. A score of 100 is average. By definition, the average person has an IQ of 100. That's how they're designed. If we, as a culture, all ate paint chips or took smart pills, the average IQ would always remain 100.



also I don't think we're talking about people who are "born stupid" (whatever that means) - I thought we were talking about people who CHOOSE to be stupid and uninformed.

[Cain]

I have 40 credits in Psychology.  And I can tell you Professor Cramulus is only saying this because he suffers from Penis Envy and wishes to humiliate Nigel, because of his unresolved Oedpial issues.

[East Coast Hustle]

IQ is pretty arbitrary as anything except a measurement of a certain type of logic... however, just from observing and working with people, not everyone is very smart, and I feel bad for people who struggle in life simply because their allotted DNA didn't happen to land them much by way of cognitive skills. Some of them are people who are good, and try as hard as they can, and they read (but have a hard time understanding what seems obvious to others) and they do what they can to better themselves, but they are just NOT THAT SMART and they struggle, and are easily taken advantage of. Are you seriously ragging on me for having an iota of compassion for the truly dumb?

There are also truck-driving, hat-wearing, hooting assholes who could be doing better if they tried, but they already think they're perfect so they don't bother. No compassion for them. Nonetheless, as I said, I TRY TO TEMPER MY CONTEMPT WITH COMPASSION because some people have the bad luck to be BORN STUPID. You may choose to believe that nature has no influence over a person's adult cognitive abilities, but even if it's fetal alcohol syndrome or being neglected as a baby or being dropped on their heads that makes them irrecoverably stupid, I still feel bad for them, and fuck you if you think that makes me a worse person.

touch a nerve, did I?



as for reading comprehension, not only did I not think that you were telling me that I should feel compassionate towards those fortunate enough to be expoitable by me, I never even told you that you shouldn't feel the aforementioned compassion.

I just asked you why.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Wow, I couldn't disagree more. Not everyone lucks into brains, and the average IQ in America is 100. That's 20 points above retarded.

just to tag in here because I have a bachelors in this shit--

IQ ratings are based comparing one's test score vs the average. A score of 100 is average. By definition, the average person has an IQ of 100. That's how they're designed. If we, as a culture, all ate paint chips or took smart pills, the average IQ would always remain 100.

Thanks for that info. It makes sense.

also I don't think we're talking about people who are "born stupid" (whatever that means) - I thought we were talking about people who CHOOSE to be stupid and uninformed.

I wasn't. Which is why I specified that I try to temper my contempt with compassion because some people are born stupid.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I just asked you why.

Semantic games are dull.

[LMNO]

No they're not.


Anyway,  are you saying that intelligence (barring redardation, birth defects, etc) is a genetic trait?

[Triple Zero]

No they're not.


Anyway,  are you saying that intelligence (barring redardation, birth defects, etc) is a genetic trait?

we also need this one as a post icon.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

No they're not.


Anyway,  are you saying that intelligence (barring redardation, birth defects, etc) is a genetic trait?

Partially. There are both inherent and environmental influences on intelligence. Are you saying that retardation is influenced by genetics, but intelligence isn't?

[AFK]

I would tend to think genetics has a stronger impact on retardation than intelligence.

I tend to think that whatever influence genetics has on intelligence is trumped and pwned by the environment. 

I've seen many a potentially gifted child crushed and pwned by their parents' apathy and indifference.  Sure, you get kids who rise above that, but I would say it has less to do with intelligence then their inherent will and drive.  My parents are high school graduates.  My Dad is a blue-collar worker, my Mom a stay-at-home Mom.  They both are certainly talented and have strenghts but they will be the first to tell you that they aren't brimming with knowledge.  I turned out the way I did because they allowed me to foster my imagination and intelligence.  They were encouraging and supported me where they could.  They didn't condemn me to status quo and "the way life should be."  I think I was born with some inherent intelligence, but I wouldn't be where I am today without the home they made for me. 

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

then their inherent will and drive.

You don't say?

[tyrannosaurus vex]

I would tend to think genetics has a stronger impact on retardation than intelligence.

I tend to think that whatever influence genetics has on intelligence is trumped and pwned by the environment. 

I've seen many a potentially gifted child crushed and pwned by their parents' apathy and indifference.  Sure, you get kids who rise above that, but I would say it has less to do with intelligence then their inherent will and drive.  My parents are high school graduates.  My Dad is a blue-collar worker, my Mom a stay-at-home Mom.  They both are certainly talented and have strenghts but they will be the first to tell you that they aren't brimming with knowledge.  I turned out the way I did because they allowed me to foster my imagination and intelligence.  They were encouraging and supported me where they could.  They didn't condemn me to status quo and "the way life should be."  I think I was born with some inherent intelligence, but I wouldn't be where I am today without the home they made for me. 

Exactly. What genetics have to do with it is that people are genetically programmed to live in and adapt to the environment they are presented with. Minds, like fish, will not outgrow their tank.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I would tend to think genetics has a stronger impact on retardation than intelligence.

I tend to think that whatever influence genetics has on intelligence is trumped and pwned by the environment. 

I've seen many a potentially gifted child crushed and pwned by their parents' apathy and indifference.  Sure, you get kids who rise above that, but I would say it has less to do with intelligence then their inherent will and drive.  My parents are high school graduates.  My Dad is a blue-collar worker, my Mom a stay-at-home Mom.  They both are certainly talented and have strenghts but they will be the first to tell you that they aren't brimming with knowledge.  I turned out the way I did because they allowed me to foster my imagination and intelligence.  They were encouraging and supported me where they could.  They didn't condemn me to status quo and "the way life should be."  I think I was born with some inherent intelligence, but I wouldn't be where I am today without the home they made for me. 

A computer has some limit to its power, based on hardware constraints. It has other limits based on OS constraints and still others by various programs (and their quality). Humans seem a lot like that... there appear to be some physical constraints to how smart/strong/cute/healthy a person will be. However, the OS (First 2 circuit imprints?) and the applications (everything else) also seem to have a great impact.

Or not...

[LMNO]

I agree with RWHN, aside from the word choices Nigel picked up on.

Also with Rat, based on the circuit model.

A mechanic can know shit-tons about the way an engine works, but get an 800 on an SAT test.  A college student can get a 1600, but not know shit about internal combustion.

You say "born stupid", I say "conditioned not to be curious outside of their experiences."