Author Topic: Victim mentality  (Read 44221 times)

Roo

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Re: Victim mentality
« Reply #90 on: May 09, 2008, 12:46:55 am »
I don't do anything. I'm insane. I spend my days staring into space and contemplating "life."

But I don't look down my nose at others that do the same.

We went over that. You're going to find this difficult if you're not going to be more observant.

Except for the people like me who are unemployed and therefore "not contributing to society".



hunter s.durden

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Re: Victim mentality
« Reply #91 on: May 09, 2008, 12:47:59 am »
wut?
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Roo

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Re: Victim mentality
« Reply #92 on: May 09, 2008, 12:55:26 am »
I don't do anything. I'm insane. I spend my days staring into space and contemplating "life."

But I don't look down my nose at others that do the same.

We went over that. You're going to find this difficult if you're not going to be more observant.

Except for the people like me who are unemployed and therefore "not contributing to society".
wut?

Some people would say that I'm insane, but I don't have a doctor's note to prove that. I spend a large portion of my days staring into space and contemplating life.
You've made several comments about how I'm unemployed and not contributing to society, and generally given me the impression that you look down on me for doing that.
That's wut.

hunter s.durden

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Re: Victim mentality
« Reply #93 on: May 09, 2008, 12:58:42 am »
I look down on you because you look down on others.

I generally do my looking down on an individual basis, not with sweeping generalizations.

The reason I make special note of you contributing nothing to society is because you looked down on Wal-Mart employees, despite the fact that they serve more of a function than you do.
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Roo

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Re: Victim mentality
« Reply #94 on: May 09, 2008, 01:36:29 am »
I look down on you because you look down on others.

I generally do my looking down on an individual basis, not with sweeping generalizations.

 So your judgment is better than mine?

Quote
The reason I make special note of you contributing nothing to society is because you looked down on Wal-Mart employees, despite the fact that they serve more of a function than you do.

Having worked a similar function before, for all I pass judgment on the local Wal-Mart employees, I do treat them as actual human beings, and make exceptions in my expectations. But when 9 out of 10 times, I get ridiculously slow service or a rude attitude, I'm not going to think highly of them. I don't think highly of Wal-Mart in general, and I don't shop there anymore, because I object to a company that seems to hire anyone who will show up, doesn't pay them a living wage, and sells cheap crap from China that breaks or falls apart within a year.

Also, the fact that I'm not a cog in the Machine at the moment doesn't mean that I haven't ever been, or won't be again in the near future. What it does mean is that I decided that I don't value being a cashier at Wal-Mart or any other retail establishment as highly as other jobs. If that makes me look down on the people that do those jobs, so be it. We can't all be as perfect as you.

hunter s.durden

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Re: Victim mentality
« Reply #95 on: May 09, 2008, 01:44:55 am »
So your judgment is better than mine?

Yes. Now we are on the same page.

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Roo

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Re: Victim mentality
« Reply #96 on: May 09, 2008, 02:40:33 am »
So your judgment is better than mine?

Yes. Now we are on the same page.



 :lulz:

Verbal Mike

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Re: Victim mentality
« Reply #97 on: May 09, 2008, 01:55:21 pm »
As far as the retardation goes...  Holding modern Jews responsible for the past attrocities of Jews is no different than holding modern day Nazis accountable for their attrocities.  The perps in both cases are dead and gone, but their ideological children are thriving.  I think both are fucktards, but that's just my opinion.  I'd have just a little more respect for them if they fessed up to the evil shit they do/did.
I fail to see your point. Who ever held neonazis responsible for the holocaust?
Ideological children my ass, Hitler wasn't the father of fascism and fascists aren't Hitler's ideological children. Nor does "ideological ancestry" make you guilt by association.
This supposed "evil they do/did" was not the doing of the Holocaust victims or survivors, or their "ideological children" or their physical issue (such as myself). Fess up for what "we/they" did? So there's a tiny chance my ancestor a hundred generations back did something crappy. How am I supposed to feel any more guilty for than than for the Holocaust? I'm a German citizen you know, and also considered a Jew according to Judaism's own rules of Who Gets To Be In The Club. So am I supposed to fess up to everything any Jew or German has ever done? Or just what German Jews did? Or just Jews with multiple citizenships? Or what?
I really don't get your point. Maybe I'm stupid or something.
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Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

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Re: Victim mentality
« Reply #98 on: May 09, 2008, 03:02:53 pm »
As far as the retardation goes...  Holding modern Jews responsible for the past atrocities of Jews is no different than holding modern day Nazis accountable for their atrocities.  The perps in both cases are dead and gone, but their ideological children are thriving.  I think both are fucktards, but that's just my opinion.  I'd have just a little more respect for them if they fessed up to the evil shit they do/did.
I fail to see your point. Who ever held neonazis responsible for the holocaust?
Ideological children my ass, Hitler wasn't the father of fascism and fascists aren't Hitler's ideological children. Nor does "ideological ancestry" make you guilt by association.
This supposed "evil they do/did" was not the doing of the Holocaust victims or survivors, or their "ideological children" or their physical issue (such as myself). Fess up for what "we/they" did? So there's a tiny chance my ancestor a hundred generations back did something crappy. How am I supposed to feel any more guilty for than than for the Holocaust? I'm a German citizen you know, and also considered a Jew according to Judaism's own rules of Who Gets To Be In The Club. So am I supposed to fess up to everything any Jew or German has ever done? Or just what German Jews did? Or just Jews with multiple citizenships? Or what?
I really don't get your point. Maybe I'm stupid or something.


I think, and I could be wrong because the semantics and linguistics appear blessed by the FSM itself, that you both are talking about two different things.

I think Verb is correct, one should not hold an individual responsible for what a society related to that individual has done. No German today, with the exception of the few remaining assholes who were involved, should be considered guilty of the atrocities of the Nazis, no American alive today should be held responsible for the enslavement of Africans or the genocide of Native Americans. Hell, most people I know in those countries are profoundly embarrassed by the actions of the people that came before them.

However, I think that Muffled Phosphor has a point as well, the ideology that says "We are seperate from everyone around us. We will stick only with our own people, our own customs and our own beliefs." makes any minority ripe for abuse. Is it 'right'? Of course not, but does such an ideology bear some responsibility for the perceptions that outsides might have about them? Of course. JW's, Mormons, Jews, the Amish, the current tension between Hispanic immigrants and Americans (or the Irish, or the Catholic etc etc)... in some sense, relates to these groups refusing to join the local tribe, the local set of standards, ideas, language etc. make them seperate, make them different... they place the US/THEM dichotomy on the majority and I find it unsurprising that the majority often responds by acting like monkeys defending their territory from a weird group of other monkeys.

This isn't always the case (see the Aboriginal groups in Aussie or the US), and it surely cannot excuse genocide... but it does seem to be a common contributor to the state that makes a society ripe for such action.
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Reverend Ju Ju Booze

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Re: Victim mentality
« Reply #99 on: May 09, 2008, 03:37:54 pm »
In my eperience the problem with generalization goes in a different way:
it's not a "sins of the fathers" kind of stereotypes set,but more a concept blending...
Some examples:very often,at least here,every criticism pointed to Israel (wich is a Country,so we are speaking of political criticism,mind you) is labeled by Israel supporters as "antisemitism". :argh!: "Race" and politics are not the same,but they are blended for rethorical reasons..
"Euthanasia" have two different meanings in modern society and in Nazi society, but not seldom "pro-life" conservatards put some slight reference to the nazi origins of the term.But patient's agreement DOES make a total difference,right?
And so on...often victimization means to use the victims as a scarecrow,to paint some Hitler moustache on opponents...
At least it is like that in Italy,where political debates have nowadays the lamest rethorics,ever.
Capitalism.
When it uses the carrot is called democracy,
When it uses the stick is called fascism.

BootyBay

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Re: Victim mentality
« Reply #100 on: May 09, 2008, 03:56:42 pm »
In my eperience the problem with generalization goes in a different way:
it's not a "sins of the fathers" kind of stereotypes set,but more a concept blending...
Some examples:very often,at least here,every criticism pointed to Israel (wich is a Country,so we are speaking of political criticism,mind you) is labeled by Israel supporters as "antisemitism". :argh!: "Race" and politics are not the same,but they are blended for rethorical reasons..
"Euthanasia" have two different meanings in modern society and in Nazi society, but not seldom "pro-life" conservatards put some slight reference to the nazi origins of the term.But patient's agreement DOES make a total difference,right?
And so on...often victimization means to use the victims as a scarecrow,to paint some Hitler moustache on opponents...
At least it is like that in Italy,where political debates have nowadays the lamest rethorics,ever.
From: http://revisionistreview.blogspot.com/2006_05_14_archive.html

On the US office to combat anti-Semitism.
"This new US government bureaucracy, dedicated to suppressing the free speech of critics of Judaism and Zionism (yes, that's it's covert objective), is a demonstrable violation of our Constitutional separation of church and state, in this case, the separation of synagogue and state. Note the involvement of the racist, gentile-hating Chabad-Lubavitch organization and Judaism's own "Orthodox Union." The Federal government, like the modern Catholic Vatican and the Protestant monarchy of England, are bulwarks for the Judaization of the West, and the jailing of writers, scientists and historians who criticize Judaism or who protest the "Holocaust" libel of the German people (Zundel, Rudolf, Irving and others).

Here we see the US government catering to the typical, "special favoritism" perpetually demanded by Orthodox rabbinic groups. Rickman's bureau within the State dept. gives advantage to one religion over another.

There are no bureaus in the US government for fighting anti-Christian bigotry or the vicious hatred and lies spread about Islam as promoted by George W. Bush's allies in the nominally "Christian" Zionist movement. This datum alone tends to show that Americans are ruled by rabbis through gentile lapdogs in Congress and the White House. The US government, along with the Pope of Rome and the Queen of England, is the enemy of Western civilization, in spite of all the formal pomp and circumstance these entities marshal to induce us to believe otherwise."
There are two kinds of people in this world.. Winners and losers.. I think we know which kind you are.

Verbal Mike

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Re: Victim mentality
« Reply #101 on: May 09, 2008, 05:05:35 pm »
However, I think that Muffled Phosphor has a point as well, the ideology that says "We are seperate from everyone around us. We will stick only with our own people, our own customs and our own beliefs." makes any minority ripe for abuse.
I definitely agree with that, and have been saying so for years. Calling yourself the chosen people is just asking for genocide. But this is not what I understood from MP's posts.
Some examples:very often,at least here,every criticism pointed to Israel (wich is a Country,so we are speaking of political criticism,mind you) is labeled by Israel supporters as "antisemitism". :argh!: "Race" and politics are not the same,but they are blended for rethorical reasons..
Look, I'm an Israeli living in Germany, and have expressed anti-Zionist opinions for years... I know this issue first hand. But all too often, closet anti-Semites or outright Jew-bashers use criticism of the State of Israel to express their hateful racist bile towards Israel... It's a difficult issue, no doubt. I've been accused more than once of anti-Semitism, and learned to basically shut up about the country I grew up in until I'm sure whoever I'm talking to knows the difference between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism. But frankly, when a European talks spitefully about Israel, my gut reaction is that he's a racist shitbag. This one German started going on about how the world should build a wall around Israel and the Occupied Territories and the Gaza Strip and either nuke the area or let them all kill eachother... As you can imagine, I didn't take this well, and I still consider him a tactless shitbag... He also said something about how he's "sick of Germany sucking up to Israel just because Germany lost the war", so I think he really is a closet Nazi-sympathizer. But there's a very fine line between that, and me saying I basically don't give a shit about what's going on in Israel because neither side is going to make a real effort to make things better until some serious bloodshed has taken place. Of course, when I say this I kinda feel like crying because it's admitting my childhood friends (many of whom are now commando soldiers) and my family might well continue to live in fear and/or die before they get to live in peace. When a German racist shitbag says it he doesn't actually give a shit about the human suffering involved.
So I might be biased here, even hypocritical, but I'm gonna keep being very suspicious any time someone without family in Israel starts arguing against Zionism. Zionism is retarded, but the State of Israel is a fact and ivory towers are not a good place to sit when considering the fate of real people.
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BootyBay

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Re: Victim mentality
« Reply #102 on: May 09, 2008, 05:10:54 pm »
Can I still criticize AIPAC and political Zionists (a lot of whom aren't even Jewish)?

I have nothing against Jews.  I don't have enough energy to hate entire groups of people.  You gotta admit that AIPAC has a lot of clout, though,  so not being able to criticize it without sounding racist is kind of disturbing.
There are two kinds of people in this world.. Winners and losers.. I think we know which kind you are.

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

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Re: Victim mentality
« Reply #103 on: May 09, 2008, 06:12:47 pm »
Can I still criticize AIPAC and political Zionists (a lot of whom aren't even Jewish)?

I have nothing against Jews.  I don't have enough energy to hate entire groups of people.  You gotta admit that AIPAC has a lot of clout, though,  so not being able to criticize it without sounding racist is kind of disturbing.

This also makes a lot of sense to me. I personally have no idea how a few nations can say "Ok, let's resettle your entire race of people in your traditional homeland which you haven't lived in since 70 CE, kick the people that live there out and then demand that everyone think this is a good idea."

I think that the nation of Israel has as much right to exist as any other (now that's its been recreated), that is, if they can defend their territory from their enemies, work out political deals with their neighbors and, in short, behave like every other nation on the planet. Sadly, most of the loud screaming "YOU MUST HATE J00S" people that I've run across are white American protestants that think they can give Jesus a hand and get that whole Rapture and Killing of Liberals underway.

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Cain

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Re: Victim mentality
« Reply #104 on: May 09, 2008, 06:25:05 pm »
I've never had a problem with people criticizing Israeli policy.  Many of the country's best terrorism experts do such a thing continually, for example.  Especially when a policy is inhumane, barbaric or counterproductive (usually all three of those go together) its a better idea to voice disagreement.

The problem with the Christian Zionists who bankroll AIPAC is that they a) work off an insane worldview and b) are clearly unware of the is/ought distinction (Israel is the land of God's previously Chosen People, therefore they ought to do everything in their power to defend themselves, no matter how vile it may be).  I don't blame the Israeli members of AIPAC for taking these idiots for a ride, I'm pretty sure they are aware that Christian Zionists actually care nothing for Israel beyond fulfilling some prophecy or another, and if the Israelis in question are not religious in their outlook, well then its a free gravy train.  The problem lays in those Christian Zionist members of AIPAC also having a very large amount of clout in the US government's policy, a strange case of scripture leading strategy.