Just because your decision had a reason does not remove your responsibility.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

i don't think i said that the actions of another person are our responsibility... but looking back i see how you'd think that.

Ratatosk you are my savior here thanks for clearing this mess up.

Rata presented a totally different argument from you.

Just saying.

I dunno... I really read his first argument as being very similar. I think that he didn't clearly delineate between Responsibility and Culpability and thats where things went off the rails. But, I could be wrong.

[Cain]

i don't think i said that the actions of another person are our responsibility... but looking back i see how you'd think that.

Ratatosk you are my savior here thanks for clearing this mess up.

Rata presented a totally different argument from you.

Just saying.

I dunno... I really read his first argument as being very similar. I think that he didn't clearly delineate between Responsibility and Culpability and thats where things went off the rails. But, I could be wrong.

Well that's why your arguments are totally different.  Culpability and responsability as you presented them are clearly not the same things, and conflating them as Regret did changes the argument focus entirely.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

i don't think i said that the actions of another person are our responsibility... but looking back i see how you'd think that.

Ratatosk you are my savior here thanks for clearing this mess up.

Rata presented a totally different argument from you.

Just saying.

I dunno... I really read his first argument as being very similar. I think that he didn't clearly delineate between Responsibility and Culpability and thats where things went off the rails. But, I could be wrong.

Well that's why your arguments are totally different.  Culpability and responsability as you presented them are clearly not the same things, and conflating them as Regret did changes the argument focus entirely.

Oh to be sure... I think, however, that it wasn't a 'different' argument, so much as he was erroneous in not being clear. I think I may have said what he meant to say is all

Or maybe not, but if not then the argument would make no sense and Regret usually seems to have some sense, so I'm guessing it was a communication error... maybe.

[Cain]

THERE ARE NO COMMUNICATION ERRORS EVER.

ESPECIALLY HERE.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

THERE ARE NO COMMUNICATION ERRORS EVER.

ESPECIALLY HERE.

ROFL

Hey, as long as communication errors lead to 6 pages of FAIL, I say Moar Communication Errors. Its good for the post count: Big Boards Here We Come!!

:lulz

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I think that this entire discussion suffers from IS/IS NOT syndrome.

I think Regret appears right in some sense... I, at least, consider myself responsible for my actions, even if those actions are in response to someone elses actions. I am responsible for everything that I choose to do. In his example of the car and milk truck... I would say that the driver may be responsible for driving into the river... but that does seem to be the best available choice that the driver had. Thus, while Responsibility may sit with the driver... Culpability probably does not. If the car owner was a friend, I'd bet that they would prefer a wet car that the insurance would take care of to a mashed car and friend, which the insurance would take care of... all except for the dead friend part.

The driver may be responsible for deciding how to avoid the collision, but not for the accident itself. To Illustrate, let's look at Regret's scenario and add an option.

The Milk truck is barreling towards our car, the river lies to the right, and some kids are playing on a sidewalk to the left. If we veer left, we'll mash a couple rugrats, but the car will be mostly fine. If we stay the course, the car, the truck and 'we' may get all mashed up, if we cut to the right, the car may get sunk, but we'll survive.

I think, in the above scenario, most people would choose the river... because, if they smashed a few kids on the bumper... they would consider those deaths to be their responsibility. Is responsibility limited to Left turns only? OR is the decision, the choice (whichever it may be), the responsibility of the driver?

However, while Our Actions may be Our Responsibility... I cannot agree that another persons actions are also our responsibility.

A rape victim is not responsible for the actions of the Rapist, just as the car driver is not responsible for the actions of the milk truck driver. However, each of us are responsible for our own actions. A rape victim may have NO CHOICE while the event is happening. The rapist may have weapons, or simply overpower the victim. However, the decisions post-trauma, in my opinion, appear as the responsibility of the victim... will they move forward with their lives, or will they spend the rest of their lives blaming every black man around for the actions of the rapist?

"Everything we are, Everything we want to be
is only happening in our reality- We Decide" - Dr. Phineas Waldolf Steel

Well said.

[Adjective Noun]

the gritters.
the knowledge you have is ofcourse relevant. if you cannot predict the consequences of your actions then you can not be held responsible for the endresult.
just for the record TGRR came with that example, not that im trying to excuse my retarded response.

the reasons behind actions are important factors in the decision making process but if they are absolute in their power to change the outcome there is no choice to speak of, its all predetermined. If it is not possible to actively choose some option over the other(s) then there is no responsibility for anything ever.

Sorry, forgot the details of the example. And alright, that makes a lot more sense. You came across a little strange for a while there

[Triple Zero]

of course you're not! the only thing you are responsible for is how you act and react.

So a rape victim is responsible for catching the rapist's eye?

yes, and the rapist is responsible for acting on his eye being caught.
and the victim is responsible for his or her level of resistance.
and the rapist is responsible for not killing himself.

are you fucking serious?

some of us dutch are weird like that. especially the "different" ones. part of the culture i guess. seriously, i learned SO MUCH reading this board.

also, Regret, you're in college right? some exact/beta thing? you should take an extracurricular course on Ethics (philosophy) as soon as you get the chance. i promise you won't regret it. (i see Nigel already suggested this.. srsly DO IT, it's good stuff, and if you got a cool professor, funny as well)

TAKE THE ETHICS COURSE

it'll show you how retarded EVERY ethical position is, but more importantly, how certain positions are definitely more retarded than others, especially in specific situations.

cause then, next time you get a silly question like this you can pose them this utilitarian ethic dilemma:

1) you are an operator of a railroad switch. the railroads head into the mountains. due to some mistake you now that there's one guy working in the one tunnel, but five guys working in the other. five ppl die, or one person dies. what do you do?

2) you're a doctor in a hospital. one guy gets brought in with a broken leg, turns out he has some very rare bloodtype. five other guys are dying unless they get a blood-transfusion of that particular rare type. getting all that blood from the guy with the broken leg will surely kill him. five ppl die, or one person dies. what do you do?

oh and RBoG:

This is why I never trust anyone who can't construct and type a grammatical sentence.

apart from Regret making some horrible dumb arguments in this thread, please to be aware that we now have a variety of posters on this board whose first language is not english. deal with it. personally i think it's damned cool that i can have meaningful conversations with people on the other side of the globe, but if you can't separate their dumb arguments from the occasional linguistic mistake, that is your loss.

[Suu]

Life is a paradox. Next fread plz.

[Triple Zero]

Life is a paradox. Next fread plz.

you mean this as the short version of why a definite proper ethics is impossible?

i'm inclined to agree,

but there's a LOT of very useful stuff to be learned by studying all the different roads philosophers went to discover this.

and because you cannot have the end-all "right" kind of ethics, it's especially helpful to learn about the pitfalls along the way (one or more of these pitfalls being what caused Regret's mistakes)

THATS WHY I SAY REGRET, WHY ARENT YOU LEARNING ABOUT ETHICS ALREADY!!!

[Cain]

Start with Satre's Being and Nothingness.

I am full of good advice.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Bump

[East Coast Hustle]

oh, god...WHY?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Because I am a cruel and sadistic Goddess of Poor Decision Making.

[E.O.T.]

Start with Satre's Being and Nothingness.

I am full of good advice.

          if i wasn't a tecknotard, i'd make this post of the day