To crap with the Chevy Volt

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I love people who insist that because the technology exists, it's in extensive use. Hello, reality gap.

See above, I never said exactly that.  I said it exists and is viable.  What thread are you reading?

the thread where some dude thinks an electric scooter is cool because it goes real fast.

[Jasper]

I love people who insist that because the technology exists, it's in extensive use. Hello, reality gap.

See above, I never said exactly that.  I said it exists and is viable.  What thread are you reading?

the thread where some dude thinks an electric scooter is cool because it goes real fast.

That is cool.  I love speeding.  But it's also not my point.  Why are you attacking my irrelevant fluff?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Actually, the uselessness of a commuter vehicle that goes 90 mph was MY point in my initial post, which you then argued with using irrelevancies like "But it's not a scooter!"

[Jasper]

Actually, the uselessness of a commuter vehicle that goes 90 mph was MY point in my initial post, which you then argued with using irrelevancies like "But it's not a scooter!"

Okay, I can actually work with that.

A) It goes as far as I need it to.  My school is about ten minutes away.

B) It looks fun.

C) The usual justifications for electric vehicles all over the internet.

I had an idea to coat the thing in the solar film I mentioned ITT, which, given the efficiency of the stuff, could charge the bike about 1/4 to 1/2 as fast as a 110-volt wall plugin, but for free.  Dig?

(Disclaimer:  I said half as fast.  It would probably take longer than a plugin, but not by much more than a factor of 4 at my miserliest guesses)

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

My only dip into the fossil fuel argument was to confirm that it is indeed true that the vast majority of electricity in the US is generated from it, making electric vehicles not actually much of a solution to the fossil fuel problem at this time. Also that arguing that technology exists to change this fact is not very meaningful given that there is no guarantee that it will be implemented anytime soon. It is very likely that IF those technologies are heavily implemented in the US, it will not happen until after the useful lifespan of one of these scooters, assuming you bought one immediately.

I know reality isn't as fun as daydreaming, but back to my original point: if there was a way for them to give it a longer battery life in trade off for a lower maximum speed at the same price point, I would consider it a more practical vehicle. I do not see the point, especially in my region where people often commute a hundred miles each way, of a commuter vehicle that only gets 150 miles to the charge and requires 6 hours to recharge.

Are you still arguing with me? Did you notice all of the subjective verbiage in my original post? Or did you not like it when I pointed out that you can refill your gas tank in less than 6 hours?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Actually, the uselessness of a commuter vehicle that goes 90 mph was MY point in my initial post, which you then argued with using irrelevancies like "But it's not a scooter!"

Okay, I can actually work with that.

A) It goes as far as I need it to.  My school is about ten minutes away.

B) It looks fun.

C) The usual justifications for electric vehicles all over the internet.

I had an idea to coat the thing in the solar film I mentioned ITT, which, given the efficiency of the stuff, could charge the bike about 1/4 to 1/2 as fast as a 110-volt wall plugin, but for free.  Dig?

(Disclaimer:  I said half as fast.  It would probably take longer than a plugin, but not by much more than a factor of 4 at my miserliest guesses)

For you, it would probably be perfect. For me, ridiculous.

I would be curious to know how much coal it takes to generate the electricity for one full charge.

Our winter days are not 12 hours long, and they are often terribly overcast. Actually, for that matter, rain and ice make scooters a poor choice of transportation about half the year.

How much would the solar film cost?

Would you always park it on the street to allow it to charge?

[Jasper]

Are you still arguing with me? Did you notice all of the subjective verbiage in my original post? Or did you not like it when I pointed out that you can refill your gas tank in less than 6 hours?

I cede that electrics aren't as convenient.

My only dip into the fossil fuel argument was to confirm that it is indeed true that the vast majority of electricity in the US is generated from it, making electric vehicles not actually much of a solution to the fossil fuel problem at this time.

As I'd said, electrics aren't the only technology that needs to be used.  There are plenty of viable ways to generate energy that, if not quite as convenient or as technologically established as coal/crude oil, will cost less in the long run both monetarily and environmentally.  I know that green energy isn't big energy yet, but I see it as a fairly strong trend that will explode over the next decade.

It is very likely that IF those technologies are heavily implemented in the US, it will not happen until after the useful lifespan of one of these scooters, assuming you bought one immediately.

I'm not rich enough to buy things right now.  But regardless, there are ways a person can generate their own DIY green energy at home without waiting for energy companies to pipe it into their house.  Citations upon request.

I know reality isn't as fun as daydreaming, but back to my original point: if there was a way for them to give it a longer battery life in trade off for a lower maximum speed at the same price point, I would consider it a more practical vehicle. I do not see the point, especially in my region where people often commute a hundred miles each way, of a commuter vehicle that only gets 150 miles to the charge and requires 6 hours to recharge.

It's not for everyone, I admit.  But yes, you could reconfigure such a vehicle to conserve power over top speed if you're handy with electrical engineering.  Additionally, I'd personally feel free to load the thing up with spare batteries, and exchange some power required to haul them around for longer life.

Ultimately, I'd be happy with a 60-70MPH bike that could recharge in the sun.

[Jasper]

For you, it would probably be perfect. For me, ridiculous.

I would be curious to know how much coal it takes to generate the electricity for one full charge.

Our winter days are not 12 hours long, and they are often terribly overcast. Actually, for that matter, rain and ice make scooters a poor choice of transportation about half the year.

How much would the solar film cost?

Would you always park it on the street to allow it to charge?

1) Solar is pretty much only practical on sunny days, to my dismay.  Many solutions at once will be the green energy of the future, I'm afraid.

2) Nanosolar hasn't released very many details about what they're charging manufacturers, I get the impression they're working some kind of angle there.  They're only releasing full details about product costs under "Non-Disclosure Agreement with qualified volume customers".  It seems like they've been getting so many offers from various investors that they can be picky as they like.

ETA: 

"With a $1-per-watt panel," [CEO Martin Roscheisen] said, "it is possible to build $2-per-watt systems."

According to the Energy Department, building a new coal plant costs about $2.1 a watt, plus the cost of fuel and emissions, he said.

That's the most I know.

ETA:  That, and a solar panel from them is supposed to be able to pay for itself in < 1 month, compared to older PV cells that take up to 3 years to pay themselves back.

3) Personally, I'd only park it on the street at destinations, and keep it plugged in at home inside the garage.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I'm not rich enough to buy things right now.  But regardless, there are ways a person can generate their own DIY green energy at home without waiting for energy companies to pipe it into their house.  Citations upon request.

I'm aware of many of the commercially available ways, and they are out of my budget range. That's going to be a significant consideration for most people.

It's not for everyone, I admit.  But yes, you could reconfigure such a vehicle to conserve power over top speed if you're handy with electrical engineering.  Additionally, I'd personally feel free to load the thing up with spare batteries, and exchange some power required to haul them around for longer life.

Handy with electrical engineering? Well, who isn't!

Ultimately, I'd be happy with a 60-70MPH bike that could recharge in the sun.

I'd be happy with a 40-45mph scooter that could recharge in the sun. Oh look, here's one!

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/06/the_worlds_firs.php

Curious how it existed in 2006 and was going into production, but there's not a peep about it after that.

I have become terribly jaded about the likelihood of new green technologies taking the world by storm.

[Jasper]

I'd be happy with a 40-45mph scooter that could recharge in the sun. Oh look, here's one!

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/06/the_worlds_firs.php

Curious how it existed in 2006 and was going into production, but there's not a peep about it after that.

I have become terribly jaded about the likelihood of new green technologies taking the world by storm.

Vaporware.  That's not even a real picture.  It probably never took off because they released specs and prices before they figured out how to make one.

Not everyone's like that, just companies that make unrealistic claims before they've done anything.

[Jasper]

It's not for everyone, I admit.  But yes, you could reconfigure such a vehicle to conserve power over top speed if you're handy with electrical engineering.  Additionally, I'd personally feel free to load the thing up with spare batteries, and exchange some power required to haul them around for longer life.

Handy with electrical engineering? Well, who isn't!

Yeah, I know.  But a lot of the time people who happen to be will post modification instructions online.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

It's not for everyone, I admit.  But yes, you could reconfigure such a vehicle to conserve power over top speed if you're handy with electrical engineering.  Additionally, I'd personally feel free to load the thing up with spare batteries, and exchange some power required to haul them around for longer life.

Handy with electrical engineering? Well, who isn't!

Yeah, I know.  But a lot of the time people who happen to be will post modification instructions online.

Well, lord knows everyone has plenty of time to build their own gadgets from internet instructions.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I'd be happy with a 40-45mph scooter that could recharge in the sun. Oh look, here's one!

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/06/the_worlds_firs.php

Curious how it existed in 2006 and was going into production, but there's not a peep about it after that.

I have become terribly jaded about the likelihood of new green technologies taking the world by storm.

Vaporware.  That's not even a real picture.  It probably never took off because they released specs and prices before they figured out how to make one.

Not everyone's like that, just companies that make unrealistic claims before they've done anything.

Which, in my adult experience, is most of them.

[East Coast Hustle]

Look into nanosolar.  They can literally print off solar panels cheaply.  Solar panels that are much more powerful than the old ones. 

www.nanosolar.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClLKVs9oSxE

Look into it.

I am still under the impression that the biggest problem with solar is an effective means of storing the energy, not the cost-effectiveness of producing it in the first place.

is that no longer true?

for the record, I think tidal power is the most promising potential carbon-free source of energy, but it is hard to see how to adapt it to be useful in the context of personal transport.

unless you live in an estuary and kayak to work.

[Jasper]

Energy can be stored in all kind of creative ways.

One somewhat odd idea is to have spare energy lift a heavy weight.  The weight remains suspended until energy is needed, then released on a flywheel to generate electricity.

Another way is to have spare energy power hydrogen synthesis machines that turn water into oxygen and hydrogen, and store the hydrogen.  Hydrogen storage is imperfect, because hydrogen atoms are the smallest atoms it tends to leak out of things, albeit somewhat slowly.

There are lots of ways to store hydrogen though.  There's a wiki on it.  But the point remains, you'd only need to store enough to last you the night anyway, and any that leaks out will just go back into the atmosphere.