To the undecided voters

[The Dark Monk]

I figured it wan't, I just wanted to jam that in there

[Jenne]

I hope all of you militant pro-voting people ARE ALSO GUN OWNERS, or else there's a lot of hypocrisy in this thread.

Owning guns and voting so NOT the same thing, kthxbye.  Owning a gun doesn't decide who sits on the throne, Nigel.  Owning a gun doesn't put bread on the table and water in the pipes.  It doesn't make roads and build hospitals, it doesn't teach my kids when they are little.

Owning a gun is like drinking alcohol.  You can do it or not.

[Cramulus]

For the record, I'm not militantly pro-voting. I think the whole system is kind of a sham, and frankly I don't blame GA for being disenchanted with it (even if laziness is a shitty excuse not to vote). But yeah -- what does gun ownership have to do with it? Am I missing a point made earlier ITT?

[AFK]

I also don't see the connection and so I'm waiting for this to be fleshed out more before I weigh in. 

[That One Guy]

I hope all of you militant pro-voting people ARE ALSO GUN OWNERS, or else there's a lot of hypocrisy in this thread.

Why? I'm not a gun owner, but I have no issues with gun ownership. I don't actually see how those two things relate, since I could easily vote against gun ownership if that was my opinion. Unless gun ownership is a requirement for being able to vote, I'm really curious as to why and how you think the two things relate.

I'm also not saying anyone NEEDS to or MUST vote. I'm just saying that if you don't vote, you shouldn't bitch about what politicians do (or don't do), because you did nothing about it (by voting either for or against them and thus their policies and actions). I actually think not voting is a valid political statement if that non-vote is based on a rejection of the entire system of government and a refusal to participate in any services therefrom. The only hypocrisy I can see is someone that doesn't vote bitching about how the government spends money.

[The Dark Monk]

This thread has been hit with a rotten apple of discord.
I just want to know if the militant voters owning guns is sarcastic or not, and if it's not, why.
I thought it was a sarcastic comment.

[Jenne]

Exercising the right to vote is not the same as exercising the right to owning a gun, free speech, drinking alcohol, driving on the streets with your windows down, etc.  Yes, those are fundamental rights that we would DEARLY miss and should be upset about if they are taken away, but voting has direct impacts on the policies and the people put in place to maintain EVERYTHING, every goddammed thing, that holds those other things in place.

You won't HAVE the right to own a gun, free speech, drive on the streets, drink alcohol, if you don't continue to support the very system that affords you those rights.  Don't vote, and the referendums that take those rights away will be in place before you know it.  Don't vote, and the wrong people with the wrong ideas (i.e. those who would take those rights away) will be in power, raping and pillaging the bill of rights at will.

The right to vote is like the right to live.  The right to breathe.  In a democracy/republic, it's all you have, besides the right to information, that keeps the whole thing alive.

[hooplala]

This thread has been hit with a rotten apple of discord.
I just want to know if the militant voters owning guns is sarcastic or not, and if it's not, why.
I thought it was a sarcastic comment.

Nigel is never sarcastic.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Owning guns and voting so NOT the same thing, kthxbye.  Owning a gun doesn't decide who sits on the throne, Nigel.  Owning a gun doesn't put bread on the table and water in the pipes.  It doesn't make roads and build hospitals, it doesn't teach my kids when they are little.

Maybe we can get a law passed to FORCE everyone to VOTE! I mean sure, we'll have to throw the religious groups that are 'neutral' in prison. Maybe execute a couple of those assholes like GA that simply don't want to vote... or maybe we should just fine her $500 for every election she doesn't attend.

This is a touchy subject for me, I came from a neutral religion and I know Americans that were persecuted for being neutral here in the states, to the point of being left for dead. Thousands of European Witnesses died in the concentration camps of Nazis, simply for refusing to say 'Hiel Hitler', surely not voting should get you worse than that! All over the world, from the USSR to Malawi, JW's have died because they decided not to participate in the political process.

So, in my opinion, I vote. I don't think it's appropriate to demand that of any other person though.

[fomenter]

Not voting is not a valid statement because the statement is not made or registered or heard. Taking the time to write in a vote for "none of the above" or "the electoral system is corrupted" is  valid and counted. Stand up and let your apathy be recognized, write in "i don't care to have an opinion"

   

[Jenne]

Owning guns and voting so NOT the same thing, kthxbye.  Owning a gun doesn't decide who sits on the throne, Nigel.  Owning a gun doesn't put bread on the table and water in the pipes.  It doesn't make roads and build hospitals, it doesn't teach my kids when they are little.

Maybe we can get a law passed to FORCE everyone to VOTE! I mean sure, we'll have to throw the religious groups that are 'neutral' in prison. Maybe execute a couple of those assholes like GA that simply don't want to vote... or maybe we should just fine her $500 for every election she doesn't attend.

This is a touchy subject for me, I came from a neutral religion and I know Americans that were persecuted for being neutral here in the states, to the point of being left for dead. Thousands of European Witnesses died in the concentration camps of Nazis, simply for refusing to say 'Hiel Hitler', surely not voting should get you worse than that! All over the world, from the USSR to Malawi, JW's have died because they decided not to participate in the political process.

So, in my opinion, I vote. I don't think it's appropriate to demand that of any other person though.

No it's not, but it should never be applauded when people don't give a shit enough to do so, however.  I don't believe in persecution, but I will not laud them and say, "Oh, that's allright!" or "Cool man, you're so punk rock!" either.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Owning guns and voting so NOT the same thing, kthxbye.  Owning a gun doesn't decide who sits on the throne, Nigel.  Owning a gun doesn't put bread on the table and water in the pipes.  It doesn't make roads and build hospitals, it doesn't teach my kids when they are little.

Maybe we can get a law passed to FORCE everyone to VOTE! I mean sure, we'll have to throw the religious groups that are 'neutral' in prison. Maybe execute a couple of those assholes like GA that simply don't want to vote... or maybe we should just fine her $500 for every election she doesn't attend.

This is a touchy subject for me, I came from a neutral religion and I know Americans that were persecuted for being neutral here in the states, to the point of being left for dead. Thousands of European Witnesses died in the concentration camps of Nazis, simply for refusing to say 'Hiel Hitler', surely not voting should get you worse than that! All over the world, from the USSR to Malawi, JW's have died because they decided not to participate in the political process.

So, in my opinion, I vote. I don't think it's appropriate to demand that of any other person though.

No it's not, but it should never be applauded when people don't give a shit enough to do so, however.  I don't believe in persecution, but I will not laud them and say, "Oh, that's allright!" or "Cool man, you're so punk rock!" either.

Then why say anything?

Also, I think Nigel's point was the "If you don't USE your RIGHT, you will LOSE your RIGHT" as applied to voting... but yet doesn't get applied to Guns... or to every Cop that says "Mind if I have a look around".

I don't think that there is any evidence to support the idea that if we don't use freedoms we lose them. I think that some societies have lost freedoms because they gave them up temporarily, or their government simply took all their rights etc. Yet, I can't think of a single example of this mantra I hear about "Use it or Lose it".

[AFK]

Umm, how do you "use or lose" your right to own guns?  What does that mean?  Wouldn't part of that be, oh say, VOTING for politicians who support your vision of the right to own guns? 

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I hope all of you militant pro-voting people ARE ALSO GUN OWNERS, or else there's a lot of hypocrisy in this thread.

Owning guns and voting so NOT the same thing, kthxbye.  Owning a gun doesn't decide who sits on the throne, Nigel.  Owning a gun doesn't put bread on the table and water in the pipes.  It doesn't make roads and build hospitals, it doesn't teach my kids when they are little.

Owning a gun is like drinking alcohol.  You can do it or not.

Except that unlike drinking alcohol, it's a Constitutional right, and if you, as an American, according to your own logic, have a patriotic duty to exercise that right, lest you be stripped of it.

[Jenne]

I hope all of you militant pro-voting people ARE ALSO GUN OWNERS, or else there's a lot of hypocrisy in this thread.

Owning guns and voting so NOT the same thing, kthxbye.  Owning a gun doesn't decide who sits on the throne, Nigel.  Owning a gun doesn't put bread on the table and water in the pipes.  It doesn't make roads and build hospitals, it doesn't teach my kids when they are little.

Owning a gun is like drinking alcohol.  You can do it or not.

It's a Constitutional right, and if you, as an American, according to your own logic, have a patriotic duty to exercise that right, lest you be stripped of it.

K, now I'll go eat babies.