The worst thread

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

FTR, I won't be selling #3 in any shape, way, or form. 

For one, I'm a lazy bastard.

For two, I don't think anyone would buy it.  Not because we didn't have some good shit in there, but because it IS good shit that would be swimming in the vast oceans of foul shit that is the internets.

In other words, I agree with P3nt. 

This whole thing was great right up until we started thinking about money.  Fuck money, let's just get some fuckers to read this shit so there won't be so many dipshits walking around breathing my air!!!!   

It's not about money for me, or for many other people, RWHN. It's about respect, and consent. I like the original idea of intermittens; a collaborative free-for-all that would be distributed by whoever felt like it. I don't like the idea of editors laying claim to the exclusive right to print and sell it, especially not in combination with the idea that editors have carte blanche to anything and everything anyone has posted to this board, permission granted or not.

As long as there is a consensus that neither of those are considered ethically acceptable by this community, I will continue to participate, gladly.

To be fair, the only person that has said they would rape the forums is P3nt... no one else. As for respect and consent, its not like this stuff was stolen, misattributed or printed without consent.

I recognize that. However, since the subject has been raised, and quite a few people seemed on board with it or were defending it, I think it's important to clearly establish whether that is or is not considered generally acceptable. I am not comfortable posting my writing here unless it is generally understood that stealing work is frowned upon by the community as a whole. That won't prevent anyone from doing it anyway, but if it's considered shitheel behavior, it will discourage it tremendously.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

FTR, I won't be selling #3 in any shape, way, or form. 

For one, I'm a lazy bastard.

For two, I don't think anyone would buy it.  Not because we didn't have some good shit in there, but because it IS good shit that would be swimming in the vast oceans of foul shit that is the internets.

In other words, I agree with P3nt. 

This whole thing was great right up until we started thinking about money.  Fuck money, let's just get some fuckers to read this shit so there won't be so many dipshits walking around breathing my air!!!!   

It's not about money for me, or for many other people, RWHN. It's about respect, and consent. I like the original idea of intermittens; a collaborative free-for-all that would be distributed by whoever felt like it. I don't like the idea of editors laying claim to the exclusive right to print and sell it, especially not in combination with the idea that editors have carte blanche to anything and everything anyone has posted to this board, permission granted or not.

As long as there is a consensus that neither of those are considered ethically acceptable by this community, I will continue to participate, gladly.

To be fair, the only person that has said they would rape the forums is P3nt... no one else. As for respect and consent, its not like this stuff was stolen, misattributed or printed without consent.

I recognize that. However, since the subject has been raised, and quite a few people seemed on board with it or were defending it, I think it's important to clearly establish whether that is or is not considered generally acceptable. I am not comfortable posting my writing here unless it is generally understood that stealing work is frowned upon by the community as a whole. That won't prevent anyone from doing it anyway, but if it's considered shitheel behavior, it will discourage it tremendously.

An excellent point.

Allow me to clearly state this:

I WILL NEVER STEAL ANY WORKS FROM THIS FORUM FOR MY OWN PROFIT. I may steal works from this forum to send to friends, post in random places and maybe even create an Intermittens issue with. However, NONE of these will involve any sort of Profit. Also, if you take peoples work without attribution, or try to sell their work without their permission, I think that's a dick move.

On the other hand, P3nT wrote a great rant....

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I may steal works from this forum to send to friends, post in random places and maybe even create an Intermittens issue with. However, NONE of these will involve any sort of Profit.

So, are you saying that you would be perfectly OK taking work posted here and putting it into an issue of Intermittens or another free zine, or reposting it elsewhere for public consumption, without getting permission?

That seems to be what you are saying. I just want to be clear.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I also want to be clear that as far as making a profit goes, I don't give a flying fuck if someone makes a profit. What I'm opposed to is someone taking my work, putting it in a compilation, and then copyrighting the compilation so that no one else can make a profit off of it. If my freely-given writing is going to be in a compilation that can be sold for profit, I want ANYONE to be allowed to sell it for profit. Including some random jackass who had nothing to do with it in the first place. All the way or not at all.

At least in the context of Discordia. My non-Discordian stuff operates under other, situationally-appropriate principles. 

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I may steal works from this forum to send to friends, post in random places and maybe even create an Intermittens issue with. However, NONE of these will involve any sort of Profit.

So, are you saying that you would be perfectly OK taking work posted here and putting it into an issue of Intermittens or another free zine, or reposting it elsewhere for public consumption, without getting permission?

That seems to be what you are saying. I just want to be clear.

NO I misstated. "Steal" should have been in quotes. So let me try this again:

I will always request permission before using ANY works in a published format... I may not always ask if I'm grabbing a random rant and using it for nefarious purposes (like dropping something fun in office mailboxes or hanging on a cubicle wall).

Also, I agree with your second post as a personal preference... I don't think its a good idea to copyright something full of Kopyleft or Creative Commons etc... (Though, there is precedence for it ala the PD)  Not only because copyright might bar someone else from making use of it, but also because it turns a cool project into a big fight. A week ago, I thought Intermittens was gonna make it for a decent run, now I am concerned that we might not make it past 6 or 7. We lost Cain and ended up with a thread full of fight, over something that we had already succeeded in without questions about Copyright and Profit.

We could have ended this easily at the first page if one or two authors would have said "I don't give consent to have my works used for profit".

[Verbal Mike]

I always thought the idea of (k) is maximal propagation. It seems like the perfect thing for what is essentially propaganda (like the PD, and like the not-entirely-(k) BIP) because rather than saying the text is a means (for recognition, profit, respect or anything else), it says the text is the ends - "do *whatever* you want with what I write, I write it so it gets read, any way you reproduce it for whatever reason is fine with me". Profit is to (k) like kryptonite is to bicycles - who gives a fuck? If making a profit drives someone to propagate those words, cool. Heck, it's a great incentive for "someone" to get "my" work out there with zero effort for me...

I think that's a really good approach for the kind of stuff that's written so that it's read. That said, I personally really appreciate being credited on the very rare occasion that anyone reproduces something I wrote (I also like being notified of it), and I can totally understand people wanting to limit the reproduction of all or some of their writing... I just don't think it's necessarily the most conductive way to deal with stuff that you want propagated.

Anyhoo, this thread is a total shitfest. I just wanted to point out that being able to reproduce (k) material for-profit seems to me an integral part of what makes (k) (k). You don't have to agree and I don't see any sense in arguing about it.

If I ever get around to writing rants/pieces/stuff here or on my St. Verbatim blog again, I will make sure to explicitly state that it is (k) in the same sense as described above. This is also what I intended for every piece I have ever posted. (If anyone wants to try to sell an anthology of VERB`'s writing for their own profit without me seeing a cent, go the fuck ahead, I would only be flattered [and laugh at you for the retarded notion].)

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

We could have ended this easily at the first page if one or two authors would have said "I don't give consent to have my works used for profit".

Somebody did. He was angry, and worded it strongly, but he was very clear.

Although of course, it's quite possible that he, or anyone else, might give consent to have work used for profit, if the situation seemed appealing  to them, so such a blanket statement would really just be silly.

[East Coast Hustle]

This whole thread is

yeah yeah yeah, discussion that needed to be had blah blah blah, but it's still

[bones]

 

[bones]

Ok, so Rumkle pointed out that there is a store here in Melbourne that will print magazines for free if they like them, and then sell them and split the profits with the people behind the magazine...
So I was wondering what intermittens crew think.
Would it be a good idea if I can see if this guy will print our magazine and sell them here in aus for profit, with half those profits going back into pd.com?
Or would it be against all that's good and holy to sell kopyleft work?

I guess you could take this thread as a respectful 'no', lys

[The Mgt]

I'll make one part of this argument very simple:

If Intermittens is intended to be sold for profit, then I do not wish this site to have anything to do with it including hosting links, threads in which the business of publishing/writing/editing Intermittens is discussed, or use of any content posted at this forum that is not specifically marked with a creative commons or public domain license.

period.

[East Coast Hustle]

oops, looks like we woke someone.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I'll make one part of this argument very simple:

If Intermittens is intended to be sold for profit, then I do not wish this site to have anything to do with it including hosting links, threads in which the business of publishing/writing/editing Intermittens is discussed, or use of any content posted at this forum that is not specifically marked with a creative commons or public domain license.

period.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I can go post another poem now.  I've been waiting for this discussion to be over so I could decide whether to delete them or keep on going.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

This fread is a fucking toolbox. I was all "fair enough" until I had a think about it last night and you know what? GET A FUCKING GRIP ON REALITY!

This is shit we type on the internets. If you think you can make money on something you've written then go make some fucking money on it. Don't post it in a goddamn message board. Here's the deal - I will use whatever the hell I goddamn well please for #6 (permission or not) If you aint happy with this guess what - that's right you can go fuck yourself. Or grow the fuck up, one of the two.

I'm not planning on making money from it, you sure as hell don't seem to be. If someone else manages it then well fucking done that guy. You want to get all butthurt cos you never thought of it then be my guest but FFS we're not talking the great american novel here and if we are then save it on an encrypted hard drive an guard it with your life. Don't broadcast it in cyberspace, don't expect some joke hippy play on the word "copyright" to somehow protect you.

I have an alternate proposal.  You publish anything of mine, for any reason, and you will be buried under a pile of subpeonas so fast your fucking head will spin.  I still have a rather large retainer with Irritable John, my attorney back in Illinois, and that is money already spent...so I will have absolutely no problem with lawyering you into bankruptcy, because it won't cost me a dime.

Posting something on the internet does NOT make it public domain, and even if it did, I'd just use procedural monkey business to drive you broke.  Please note that the server and the board (ie, ECH and Faust) will be left out of any legal wranglings...you and you alone will be the sole target of the hilarity.

If you think I am bluffing, by all means, do something dumb.

Okay, that being said, and having read most of the thread, I see no reason to continue ranting, or to finish the handbook, or post podcasts.  I did it for FUN, not so some fucking tapeworm could make a quick buck off of my writing.  You have made it NOT fun, simply by virtue of your above post.

You want to make a buck on writing?  Write your own shit, you fucking vulture.