Bridge Deconstruction Ahead

[Jenne]

Regarding the title "Lollecaust" --

Horrormirth, a form of gallows humor, is enjoyable to many of the people who post here.

If you don't enjoy it, that's okay - you're probably not the target audience. People who get offended by a reference to the Holocaust probably won't get many of our jokes anyway. I don't think any of us are trying to produce something for the NY Times bestseller list, nor is a work like Lollercaust intended for the widest possible audience.

This is all kind of silly though because we're talking about an unfinished work which nobody, at the moment, is working on. 

Admission #1:  Never thought it was that defined in the first place--I think I just lumped a lot of the "humor" work that I felt was missing in the BIP into a general idea that would be a "Lollercaust."

Admission #2:  I am not on the ground floor of this project, nor in the trenches, but I recognize its efforts could be a great grab of extra folks that see the BIP as simply too dark of a metaphor or who just naturally respond better to humor with a wicked twist (like political cartoons, etc.).

[Jenne]

It's okay Jenne, a lot of people agree with him and also have a really hard time being convinced that his contributions to Lollercaust would be worth it.

yeah, but I rarely see them exhibit this butter-won't-melt-in-my-mouth attitude, either.  The guy has this going for him:  he puts out a ton o' shit.  Some of it decent, some of it just fodder for the grist mill.  But at least he doesn't sit here JUST idly picking other peoples' noses.

[Jenne]

Sigh.

Judging/book/cover.

I've always felt like that was a really silly criticism.

When you're in a bookstore, do you read every book in there to decide which ones are worth reading?  I find that unlikely.  Cain might.

Most folks, however, make judgments about what they're interested in spending time on based on the project's presentation.  Title, cover, blurb.  Sometimes excerpts or comments from friends.

Ignoring your reader's impressions until you decide to insult them for those impressions is ridiculous.  Maybe if the quality of product being produced here were up in the ranks with Joyce and Pynchon, I'd be less critical of the habit... but hitherby dragons has a higher average quality and almost as much diversity.

Wrong.  Cursing something as ineffectual based on the title alone when it's obviously a pet project of those you are interacting with and (I'm supposing, here, though your behavior and tone often point to the contrary) hoping to get along with is just shitty.  You came in here swinging a dick, and I suggest you get a jock strap.

Lollercaust is actually a genius few can figure out let alone be arsed to do so.

Sounds like the teleporter I didn't invent.

"This thing, which doesn't exist, is genius!  If only somebody would just make it!"

I've read the submissions on the BIP wiki.  Just curious -- how many of those made you laugh, like, out loud?  

If you want others to laugh, try laughing yourself first.

Wow, again, you don't get it (surprise surprise.../sarcasm).  It is very very DIFFICULT to get down what it is that will have people howling with laughter until they are screaming, and still entertain and make people think differently.  Or think at all, really.  I know, because I've tried, and I think I have a rather great sense of humor as well as grasp on a lot of popular themes, historical data, multicultural  and anything else that needs to go into such a work.

But it's hard, and unless the muse grabs you by the short hair and whispers in your ear, what you end up with is sometimes less palatable than when you began.  

It's the hook that will get the worm, it's a worthy enough project that only the worthy will even ATTEMPT.  

I've never shied away from being unworthy before.  Besides, nobody here seems interested in my writing.  I cracked myself up with "Dear Mr. Jones," but the only other person here who laughed was TGRR -- and who can tell where that was aimed?

And yet you rejected it with a knee-jerk reaction, rather than asking wtf it was for.  It's not that anyone is uninterested, it's that you took a dump on everyone's chest and then were amazed they didn't bow down and worship your efforts at smearing it on the walls afterwards.

Take some fucking time, already.  Join in threads where you don't set yourself up as expert.  Approach is like 9/10 of the deal here, Dude.

[Arafelis]

It's not that anyone is uninterested, it's that you took a dump on everyone's chest and then were amazed they didn't bow down and worship your efforts at smearing it on the walls afterwards.

Take some fucking time, already.  Join in threads where you don't set yourself up as expert.  Approach is like 9/10 of the deal here, Dude.

I have not claimed to be an expert on any subject, although I'll admit I may has well have regarding literary criticism.  Nor am I -- after my second post -- surprised at anyone's reaction to me.  But when trivial opinion provokes a cry of intellectual elitism, it's pretty apparent what sort of environment I'm dealing with.

One's approach matters before an ethos is established.  After that, it's an entirely different ball game.  One I wouldn't want to play always, but one I find interesting now.

Cursing something as ineffectual based on the title alone

I didn't.

when it's obviously a pet project of those you are interacting with and (I'm supposing, here, though your behavior and tone often point to the contrary) hoping to get along with is just shitty.

I'm not.

And yet you rejected it with a knee-jerk reaction, rather than asking wtf it was for.

There is a list of active projects on the BIP wiki and other threads have commented on them.  I am aware of most of the work available through the forums for most of them.

book covers

Fine, fine, you are correct, and I wasn't: reviews do most of the selling for books for most people.  Rather than say that I "actually meant" something else, I'd instead like to amend my comment... watch book-browsers for a while, especially around the new releases table, where reviews and recommendations are scarce.  They pick up the book, look at the cover, look at the back (or the inside flap), perhaps flip it open and read a little ways.

The projects here don't and probably won't have reviews by non-involved parties.  And the recommendations you're likely to get are a sentence or two on someone's blog with a link, most probably as part of a list of "Other Discordian Works" or the like.  Within that context of a list of 10-20 works, my experience is that most people who read any will read perhaps 2-3 of them.  Barring a singularly glowing recommendation to make it stand out, the title and maybe first paragraph or so will do the "selling."

People who get offended by a reference to the Holocaust probably won't get many of our jokes anyway.

It's not the Holocaust reference, it's that it sounds like something you'd hear on 4-chan.  I don't equate that with literary excellence.

You really didn't find the Lollercaust submissions funny?

The Larry King interview got a chuckle, but it's already been used in Intermittens.  I suppose that's not a disqualification.

Gorillas In the Mist was amusing but definitely not in a laugh-out-loud kind of way.  Same for Alternate Snubs.  And the punchline for Land of the Box Weavers, but it's overall a pretty 'serious' work.

The "let's rehash ancient documents with a Discordian twist" meme kind of wore out its welcome on me about five years ago, and I didn't find any of those type of submissions to be especially superior for the model.

Reference for comparison: I frequently laugh out loud at XKCD and zero-punctuation.  This guy makes me laugh, but I probably wouldn't if I were just reading it.  The end of Kiwi! makes me laugh.

[Sir Squid Diddimus]

you're boring.

[Cait M. R.]

bullshit

Get hit by a train already.

[Cainad (dec.)]

When you're in a bookstore, do you read every book in there to decide which ones are worth reading?  I find that unlikely.  Cain might.

I rely on the good taste and judgement of my friends, authors whose other work I previously enjoyed, or steal it off the internet.

Just like everyone else.

I worked in a bookstore for years, and yeah. Pretty much no one wanders in and just buys random books because they like the cover. There's a completely valid reason for that saying.

Cover art is important for selling some kinds of books; anything that might get endcapped will sell better if it has a good cover. Most books never get endcapped. Most books sell because the buyer came in looking for them.

Look at the phenomenal success of certain recent series books which have dispensed with the pretension of cover art entirely.

Ironically, probably the most formative book I read in high school and which continues to be among my favorites is one I bought because of a cool cover and catchy title. Otherwise I totally agree.

[Jenne]

It's not that anyone is uninterested, it's that you took a dump on everyone's chest and then were amazed they didn't bow down and worship your efforts at smearing it on the walls afterwards.

Take some fucking time, already.  Join in threads where you don't set yourself up as expert.  Approach is like 9/10 of the deal here, Dude.

I have not claimed to be an expert on any subject, although I'll admit I may has well have regarding literary criticism.  Nor am I -- after my second post -- surprised at anyone's reaction to me.  But when trivial opinion provokes a cry of intellectual elitism, it's pretty apparent what sort of environment I'm dealing with.

One's approach matters before an ethos is established.  After that, it's an entirely different ball game.  One I wouldn't want to play always, but one I find interesting now.

Cursing something as ineffectual based on the title alone

I didn't.

when it's obviously a pet project of those you are interacting with and (I'm supposing, here, though your behavior and tone often point to the contrary) hoping to get along with is just shitty.

I'm not.

And yet you rejected it with a knee-jerk reaction, rather than asking wtf it was for.

There is a list of active projects on the BIP wiki and other threads have commented on them.  I am aware of most of the work available through the forums for most of them.

book covers

Fine, fine, you are correct, and I wasn't: reviews do most of the selling for books for most people.  Rather than say that I "actually meant" something else, I'd instead like to amend my comment... watch book-browsers for a while, especially around the new releases table, where reviews and recommendations are scarce.  They pick up the book, look at the cover, look at the back (or the inside flap), perhaps flip it open and read a little ways.

The projects here don't and probably won't have reviews by non-involved parties.  And the recommendations you're likely to get are a sentence or two on someone's blog with a link, most probably as part of a list of "Other Discordian Works" or the like.  Within that context of a list of 10-20 works, my experience is that most people who read any will read perhaps 2-3 of them.  Barring a singularly glowing recommendation to make it stand out, the title and maybe first paragraph or so will do the "selling."

People who get offended by a reference to the Holocaust probably won't get many of our jokes anyway.

It's not the Holocaust reference, it's that it sounds like something you'd hear on 4-chan.  I don't equate that with literary excellence.

You really didn't find the Lollercaust submissions funny?

The Larry King interview got a chuckle, but it's already been used in Intermittens.  I suppose that's not a disqualification.

Gorillas In the Mist was amusing but definitely not in a laugh-out-loud kind of way.  Same for Alternate Snubs.  And the punchline for Land of the Box Weavers, but it's overall a pretty 'serious' work.

The "let's rehash ancient documents with a Discordian twist" meme kind of wore out its welcome on me about five years ago, and I didn't find any of those type of submissions to be especially superior for the model.

Reference for comparison: I frequently laugh out loud at XKCD and zero-punctuation.  This guy makes me laugh, but I probably wouldn't if I were just reading it.  The end of Kiwi! makes me laugh.

Dear god.  Do you even READ the drip, drip, drip of the drawling insouciance your posts seem to evoke in the inner ear of the reader?  I'm betting: no.

You DISMISSED Lollercaust by NAME ALONE.  Yes, that's a knee-jerk reaction, and yes, most people here react violently against such tactics in bringing down a particular project they may think is important here.  Most of us have jobs that take a lot of their time, kids, mortgages, whatthefuckever that takes over a lot of their real lives.  Some jerk-off walking in off the streets and knifing the guts of what takes away all the time left over from the real-live meaningful stuff is going to be met with some oppostion when he's a fucking dick over it.

But you've had it spelled out to you before and all you engage in is this pseudo-intellectual doublespeak.  I'm not crying "pledge" here I'm just saying--stop trying so hard to be A#1 dude on everything.  You have given some great insights and helpful hints on some particular things throughout the board--I've seen that (the only reason why I'm bothering even typing this assinine thing out)...but for the love of christ--drop the knowitall schtick and just be a mensch.

[Arafelis]

drop the knowitall schtick and just be a mensch.

Ok, I'll give it a shot.  I'm more comfortable when I'm contributing information, but there's no need for me to be a dick about it.  No one benefits.

[Thurnez Isa]

both of those aren't going to happen anytime soon so lets not even pretend

[Triple Zero]

I worked in a bookstore for years, and yeah. Pretty much no one wanders in and just buys random books because they like the cover. There's a completely valid reason for that saying.

Cover art is important for selling some kinds of books; anything that might get endcapped will sell better if it has a good cover. Most books never get endcapped. Most books sell because the buyer came in looking for them.

Look at the phenomenal success of certain recent series books which have dispensed with the pretension of cover art entirely.

what's "endcapped"? I looked it up on google but all I find is stuff related to dentistry and industrial chemistry.

[Arafelis]

what's "endcapped"? I looked it up on google but all I find is stuff related to dentistry and industrial chemistry.

Ah, here's something I really am an expert on.  Unfortunately.

It's a retail term.  Endcaps are those displays at the ends of aisles in a store.  Products are placed there, often with bright/elaborate signs, to catch customers' eyes and get them to buy whatever is being so displayed.

[Corvidia]

drop the knowitall schtick and just be a mensch.

Ok, I'll give it a shot.  I'm more comfortable when I'm contributing information, but there's no need for me to be a dick about it.  No one benefits.

Discordianism isn't about being comfortable, is it? I'm happier contributing information, too, but I tend to shut up around here unless I have something either funny or intelligent to say. Many of the members here are a hell of a lot smarter than I am and if nothing else, I learn from them. You seem to say whatever ends up on the tip of your tongue. Think more before you post, yes?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

drop the knowitall schtick and just be a mensch.

Ok, I'll give it a shot.  I'm more comfortable when I'm contributing information, but there's no need for me to be a dick about it.  No one benefits.

It's often helpful, before posting, to first make sure you're right, and to also try to think about whether the information you want to post is actually new to your audience. Posting information they can reasonably be expected to already have just comes across as pompous and condescending.

In your case, you most often come across as a sophomore trying to inform a classroom full of grad students.

[Arafelis]

Hehehe.  That'd be a good newsfeed:

PD.com: Equivalent to a room full of grad students!