Birthers scare the fuck out of me

[Cain]

What substance?  You have wild conjecture and no evidence.  There is nothing to discuss, so I am going to poke you with sticks, which is more than you deserve.

[LMNO]

The Birthers got pwned.

There are no "Birthers"

I refute thusly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ2i9cEtZ60

[Kai]

Quod Erat Demonstrandum.

[Captain Utopia]

The Birthers got pwned.

There are no "Birthers"

I refute thusly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ2i9cEtZ60

Look. I wasn't trying to say that there are no people that consider themselves "Birthers" today. Or tomorrow. But that by next year they'll likely have ceased to exist almost entirely. They are a transitory political group mixing grassroots with media-led astroturf. It's not like talking about an actual demographic, or an issue based group who are established. I could become a "Birther" if I wished, and there'd be almost no risk or cost to doing so, because I'd cease to be one simply as soon as I just stopped talking about it.

Taking from other similar examples such as the "teabaggers" - you can have fun and fling shit at them if you want, but in the end the group dissolves and the shit sticks to no-one.

You can take any four words out of context and make fun if you wish. But you're only proving something to yourself.

[LMNO]

Descriptive nouns are transitory.


FILM AT ELEVEN!

[AFK]

Look. I wasn't trying to say that there are no people that consider themselves "Birthers" today. Or tomorrow. But that by next year they'll likely have ceased to exist almost entirely. They are a transitory political group mixing grassroots with media-led astroturf. It's not like talking about an actual demographic, or an issue based group who are established. I could become a "Birther" if I wished, and there'd be almost no risk or cost to doing so, because I'd cease to be one simply as soon as I just stopped talking about it.

Taking from other similar examples such as the "teabaggers" - you can have fun and fling shit at them if you want, but in the end the group dissolves and the shit sticks to no-one.

You can take any four words out of context and make fun if you wish. But you're only proving something to yourself.

Oh please, there are still "truthers" running around screaming and hollering about how 9/11 was an inside job, and prominent ones like Jesse Ventura.  They never went away.  And you are seriously deluding yourself or seriously out of touch if you think these "Birther" jackasses are going to go away so long as Obama is in the White House.  "Birther"-ism, is essentially a proxy movement for racism.  I would also suggest that a significant portion of the Tea Baggers would also fall into that category.

Meanwhile, the Tea Baggers haven't gone away or dissolved.  They are now being bused around by the Republicans and the Health Insurance Industry to disrupt local town hall meetings.  They are being given times and locations and scripts to make sure that any meaningful dialogue on health care reform doesn't happen.  

There is nothing transitory about it.  There are a group of right-wing degenerate asshats who simply cannot reconcile the fact that we have a President who has a skin color that is unlike those of the previous 43 Presidents.  They will not cease their efforts to undermine him until he is out of office.  

[Captain Utopia]

Look. I wasn't trying to say that there are no people that consider themselves "Birthers" today. Or tomorrow. But that by next year they'll likely have ceased to exist almost entirely. They are a transitory political group mixing grassroots with media-led astroturf. It's not like talking about an actual demographic, or an issue based group who are established. I could become a "Birther" if I wished, and there'd be almost no risk or cost to doing so, because I'd cease to be one simply as soon as I just stopped talking about it.

Taking from other similar examples such as the "teabaggers" - you can have fun and fling shit at them if you want, but in the end the group dissolves and the shit sticks to no-one.

You can take any four words out of context and make fun if you wish. But you're only proving something to yourself.

Oh please, there are still "truthers" running around screaming and hollering about how 9/11 was an inside job, and prominent ones like Jesse Ventura.  They never went away.  And you are seriously deluding yourself or seriously out of touch if you think these "Birther" jackasses are going to go away so long as Obama is in the White House.  "Birther"-ism, is essentially a proxy movement for racism.  I would also suggest that a significant portion of the Tea Baggers would also fall into that category.

Meanwhile, the Tea Baggers haven't gone away or dissolved.  They are now being bused around by the Republicans and the Health Insurance Industry to disrupt local town hall meetings.  They are being given times and locations and scripts to make sure that any meaningful dialogue on health care reform doesn't happen.  

There is nothing transitory about it.  There are a group of right-wing degenerate asshats who simply cannot reconcile the fact that we have a President who has a skin color that is unlike those of the previous 43 Presidents.  They will not cease their efforts to undermine him until he is out of office.  

Absolutely. I agree completely.

Some of them even are probably the fucktards in Florida that Rove bused in for the "Stop the Count" demonstrations for the 2000 US election. If you just attack the transitory labels like "teabagger" and "birther", it seems that you play right into their game though because they'll just pretend to be another grassroots movement next month, wear another hat, and repeat the pattern.

Meanwhile, some deluded folks likely remain in their wake who believe the lie completely and prevent the movement from absolute implosion.. but once the movement loses political punch, the folks who are more aware of the real agenda don't waste their time any longer.

[LMNO]

To clarify, the noun is transitory, the mindstate is not.

[AFK]

Absolutely. I agree completely.

Some of them even are probably the fucktards in Florida that Rove bused in for the "Stop the Count" demonstrations for the 2000 US election. If you just attack the transitory labels like "teabagger" and "birther", it seems that you play right into their game though because they'll just pretend to be another grassroots movement next month, wear another hat, and repeat the pattern.

Gee, you think maybe the fact that I just explained that means that I'm fully aware of that?  Do you think we are all idiots? 

[Captain Utopia]

Absolutely. I agree completely.

Some of them even are probably the fucktards in Florida that Rove bused in for the "Stop the Count" demonstrations for the 2000 US election. If you just attack the transitory labels like "teabagger" and "birther", it seems that you play right into their game though because they'll just pretend to be another grassroots movement next month, wear another hat, and repeat the pattern.

Gee, you think maybe the fact that I just explained that means that I'm fully aware of that?  Do you think we are all idiots? 

Four words of mine were just used to strawman me into an argument I didn't make. If we're on the same page - great. I'm not calling anyone an idiot.

[AFK]

Absolutely. I agree completely.

Some of them even are probably the fucktards in Florida that Rove bused in for the "Stop the Count" demonstrations for the 2000 US election. If you just attack the transitory labels like "teabagger" and "birther", it seems that you play right into their game though because they'll just pretend to be another grassroots movement next month, wear another hat, and repeat the pattern.

Gee, you think maybe the fact that I just explained that means that I'm fully aware of that?  Do you think we are all idiots? 

Four words of mine were just used to strawman me into an argument I didn't make. If we're on the same page - great. I'm not calling anyone an idiot.

Well, no, you actually kind of did make that argument.  In the post from which Cain quoted, you said they would go back into anonymity.  Going into anonymity is not exactly the same thing as morphing into something different.  I am arguing that they actually won't go back into anonymity because their movement is based upon bigoted hatred of President Obama.  As long as he is President, there will be "Birthers".  Meanwhile, the Tea Baggers are the ones morphing into astroturfed "grassroots" movements to wreak havoc in Town Hall meetings on health care reform. 

It may be you thought in your head that is what you were arguing initially, but you really weren't.  I think perhaps you need to work on your writing skills. 

[Captain Utopia]

Well, no, you actually kind of did make that argument.  In the post from which Cain quoted, you said they would go back into anonymity.  Going into anonymity is not exactly the same thing as morphing into something different.  I am arguing that they actually won't go back into anonymity because their movement is based upon bigoted hatred of President Obama.  As long as he is President, there will be "Birthers".  Meanwhile, the Tea Baggers are the ones morphing into astroturfed "grassroots" movements to wreak havoc in Town Hall meetings on health care reform. 

It may be you thought in your head that is what you were arguing initially, but you really weren't.  I think perhaps you need to work on your writing skills. 

From a functional perspective, they may as well be anonymous since they take new labels at will. So I feel that you may be a touch pedantic here, but I agree entirely on your point about my writing skills.

[Cain]

Taking new labels at will =/= anonymous.  You're doing that thing you always do, where you make up meanings for words which already have well known, pre-existing meanings, which don't match with yours

[Cain]

Speaking of the Teabaggers and Health Insurance, just to back up RWHN's point:



http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/tea-party-crowd-crashes-steny-hoyer-event.php?ref=fpblg

[AFK]

No, Sherlock (addressing fictionpuss), you are conflating the "Birthers" with the "Tea Baggers".  The tea baggers are morphing from taxes to health care.  The Birthers are pretty focused on the birth certificate "issue".  There is no morphing going on with them.