Moral Relativity VS. An Absolute Moral System

[Cain]

...and that's in the long run, right?

Like, getting wikkid drunk tonight might give pleasure, but the resulting hangover negated that.  Or something.

Only if it resulted in the greatest amounts of happiness for the most amount of people.  Bentham's "system" was very simple, yet at the same time utterly useless, since he didn't really define things like happiness or pleasure or how to measure them.

John Stuart Mill complicated it by adding in the distinction between higher and lower pleasures, and Mill placed the focus on happiness above pleasure, since he felt something could be pleasurable in the short term but not give much in the way of happiness.

And there is also the division between act and rule utilitarianism.  Rule utiliarianism works from, well, rules, generalizing what normally happens in a case and then following rules based on that, whereas act ultilitarianism relies on the particulars of each individual situation, while attempting to avoid rules

[LMNO]

I'm pretty sure everyone's happier when I'm drunk.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I also agree with LMNO here. Though, isn't what he said along the lines of utilitarianism (a form of AM)?

Nah, I think utilitarianism is still relative, much like Virtue Ethics which we discussed here some time ago. Utilitarianism says what is right is what brings the greatest good for the most people... however, what tbrings the greatest good, is still relative to the goals, perceptions and preferences of the individual, group/tribe etc.

Actually, it was originally the greatest amount of pleasure or happiness, at least if you go by the Bentham or Mill definition.

Yep, my exposure was through Virtue Ethics and the more modern takes on JS Mill's original positions.

[Cain]

As an aside, I'm pretty sure utilitarianism was invented only so first year philosophy students would have a theory so full of holes they could shoot it apart with ease.

[LMNO]

Surprisingly useful, in that case.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

As an aside, I'm pretty sure utilitarianism was invented only so first year philosophy students would have a theory so full of holes they could shoot it apart with ease.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

We can model weather quite accurately.

Come to Tucson.  It's a fucking DESERT, and they can't predict the weather worth a fuck.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I'm pretty sure everyone's happier when I'm LOCKED IN A Trunk.

Fixed.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

We can model weather quite accurately.

Come to Tucson.  It's a fucking DESERT, and they can't predict the weather worth a fuck.

Dude, their model doesn't include a cactus eating rain god.... Thats a fuckin variable that you cannot dismiss.

[LMNO]

I'm pretty sure everyone's happier when I'm LOCKED IN A Trunk.

Fixed.

[Cain]

We can model weather quite accurately.

True, but only up to about three days, as I recall. 

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I'm pretty sure everyone's happier when I'm LOCKED IN A Trunk.

Fixed.

Nonsense.  My actions may seem evil, but that is because I work in mysterious ways.  For example, if Kim Kardashian was also in the trunk, would you then consider it an undesirable thing?  She's not, though.  I think I left some large rats in there.  Again, mysterious ways.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I'm pretty sure everyone's happier when I'm LOCKED IN A Trunk.

Fixed.

Nonsense.  My actions may seem evil, but that is because I work in mysterious ways.  For example, if Kim Kardashian was also in the trunk, would you then consider it an undesirable thing?  She's not, though.  I think I left some large rats in there.  Again, mysterious ways.

Uhh, how do you know the difference?

[Jenne]

I'm pretty sure everyone's happier when I'm drunk.

You sound like me. 

My husband calls it "The Good Jennifer"...

[Jenne]

As an aside, I'm pretty sure utilitarianism was invented only so first year philosophy students would have a theory so full of holes they could shoot it apart with ease.

It just sounds so terribly Victorian...or borne of that era.