Author Topic: Opinions Wanted  (Read 11102 times)

Richter

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Re: Opinions Wanted
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2009, 05:51:57 pm »
Tell the bitch that biggots jump to their conclusions SLOW compared to her.
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Re: Opinions Wanted
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2009, 05:53:18 pm »
Rat, that's an awfully non-agnostic position you're taking there...

A skeptical one actually.

Homosexuality is surely an anomaly as it is not the norm or most common position. The question then becomes is it a positive, negative or flat anomaly. Based on my current level of knowledge, (and I researched this about 6 months ago) we don't really have any evidence to support the "positive anomaly" position, yet. Until we do, it appear to me that saying "its an anomaly" is the skeptical/agnostic position to take. We can all agree its an anomaly, we do not know if it is a positive one though.

At best, we have some hypothesis about how it might have been positive... we have some evidence of how it could be negative (ie no reproduction of DNA), so assigning a value to the anomaly seems absurd at this point.

FP, I think I recall the study you're talking about and I'm almost positive that the 'homosexuals' in question were more correctly termed bi-sexual as they had performed sexual acts with both sexes. It might support a social cause for homosexual behavior, but I don't think they provided evidence that it was a genetic trigger.

Burden of proof is on seeing it as positive or negative, rather than simply an anomaly.

Also, I realized that I used Hoopla's word in the numbered list... I shouldn't have said 'mistake' but rather 'Genetic anomaly' there.
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Hoopla!

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Re: Opinions Wanted
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2009, 05:55:54 pm »
Genetic anomaly...  christ, my lunch could have been totally different if I had thought to use that term.
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themenniss

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Re: Opinions Wanted
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2009, 05:57:00 pm »
i think it could be a faulty gene, but if this was the case it would have to be recessive as the likelihood of a homosexual having kids without adoption is not too great.
i also think that the gene could have a purpose: population control, if everybody was heterosexual then wouldn't that cause a massive increase in the growth or our population where it would become rapidly too big for the limited resources we have on earth?
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Brotep

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Re: Opinions Wanted
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2009, 05:57:38 pm »
This co worker sounds like a phobeaphobe, to the point that she can't have an objective conversation on a hotbutton issue without getting freaked out.  that or she has soem sort of fetish for flying off the handle and alienating people the moment she can get even an INKLING that they might have an opinion she can take offense at.  (SRSLY, some people can only get off when they're on a self righteous headtrip.)

This.

The preemptively offended are some of the most obnoxious people I've ever had the displeasure of pretending to listen to at lunch.


Hoops, as I see it you have two choices:
1) don't express your opinions (even if you clarify, the "I know what I heard" / "You said a bad word--I'm telling!" effect comes into play)
or
2) next time you catch a shit wave, bring your surfboard, and enjoy

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Re: Opinions Wanted
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2009, 05:59:32 pm »
i also think that the gene could have a purpose: population control, if everybody was heterosexual then wouldn't that cause a massive increase in the growth or our population where it would become rapidly too big for the limited resources we have on earth?

So it's fair to say that homosexuals are like serial killers in that respect?
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Hoopla!

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Re: Opinions Wanted
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2009, 05:59:45 pm »
2) next time you catch a shit wave, bring your surfboard, and enjoy

this
“Soon all of us will have special names” — Professor Brian O’Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." — Bob Dylan?

"Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes" — Walt Whitman

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Re: Opinions Wanted
« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2009, 06:01:07 pm »
This co worker sounds like a phobeaphobe, to the point that she can't have an objective conversation on a hotbutton issue without getting freaked out.  that or she has soem sort of fetish for flying off the handle and alienating people the moment she can get even an INKLING that they might have an opinion she can take offense at.  (SRSLY, some people can only get off when they're on a self righteous headtrip.)

This.

The preemptively offended are some of the most obnoxious people I've ever had the displeasure of pretending to listen to at lunch.


Hoops, as I see it you have two choices:
1) don't express your opinions (even if you clarify, the "I know what I heard" / "You said a bad word--I'm telling!" effect comes into play)
or
2) next time you catch a shit wave, bring your surfboard, and enjoy

"preemptively offended" :mittens:
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Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and it’s not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesn’t matter." -- Max Tegmark

themenniss

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Re: Opinions Wanted
« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2009, 06:03:01 pm »
i also think that the gene could have a purpose: population control, if everybody was heterosexual then wouldn't that cause a massive increase in the growth or our population where it would become rapidly too big for the limited resources we have on earth?

So it's fair to say that homosexuals are like serial killers in that respect?
not quite. serial killers kill people.
homosexuals don't kill anything as it never existed in the first place.
unless you're a gay serial killer. in which case 'surprise butt stab'?
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Re: Opinions Wanted
« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2009, 06:08:47 pm »
i also think that the gene could have a purpose: population control, if everybody was heterosexual then wouldn't that cause a massive increase in the growth or our population where it would become rapidly too big for the limited resources we have on earth?

So it's fair to say that homosexuals are like serial killers in that respect?
not quite. serial killers kill people.
homosexuals don't kill anything as it never existed in the first place.
unless you're a gay serial killer. in which case 'surprise butt stab'?

Nett result is the same - population control. You think Homosexuals are like serial killers - you bastard! I'm preemptively offended :argh!:
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"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and it’s not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesn’t matter." -- Max Tegmark

Captain Utopia

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Re: Opinions Wanted
« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2009, 06:10:55 pm »
FP, I think I recall the study you're talking about and I'm almost positive that the 'homosexuals' in question were more correctly termed bi-sexual as they had performed sexual acts with both sexes. It might support a social cause for homosexual behavior, but I don't think they provided evidence that it was a genetic trigger.

Burden of proof is on seeing it as positive or negative, rather than simply an anomaly.

Also, I realized that I used Hoopla's word in the numbered list... I shouldn't have said 'mistake' but rather 'Genetic anomaly' there.

I was referring to my 12 year old recollection of reading The Selfish Gene - the non-mating individuals may have had hetrosexual relations in the past, but switched to a non-mating role to help support a niece or nephew. The book looks at the issue from the perspective of the replicating units themselves - the multitude of genes an individual carries, rather than the irrelevant wishes of the fleshy robot they inhabit.

So in the case of the aunt/uncle pitching in, you can see how the genes themselves are best served by giving one individual the best chance of reproduction, rather than supporting two individuals who will compete for scant resources and likely both fail.  It's a step beyond that to apply the same logic of individual sacrifice benefiting a community, and also being in the best interest of the genes of the sacrificial individual. And it's another step beyond even that to suggest that homosexuality may provide similar benefits, though I think it's more probable than homosexuality being a genetic plague that the human race can't seem to rid itself of. But I'm out of my depth on this.

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Re: Opinions Wanted
« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2009, 06:15:34 pm »
i also think that the gene could have a purpose: population control, if everybody was heterosexual then wouldn't that cause a massive increase in the growth or our population where it would become rapidly too big for the limited resources we have on earth?

So it's fair to say that homosexuals are like serial killers in that respect?
not quite. serial killers kill people.
homosexuals don't kill anything as it never existed in the first place.
unless you're a gay serial killer. in which case 'surprise butt stab'?

Nett result is the same - population control. You think Homosexuals are like serial killers - you bastard! I'm preemptively offended :argh!:


 :lulz:

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Re: Opinions Wanted
« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2009, 06:21:13 pm »
In my personal opinion, based on my personal experiences and what I've read... I would not be surprised to find the entire basis of the argument to be faulty. It seems to me that the most simple explanation MIGHT be that humans, by default,  are wired for bi-sexual behavior. Depending on the society in which they live and the life experiences they have, they may become solely attracted to one sex, to the exclusion of the other. That is, it may be genetic, social and experiential... rather than only genetic. Of course, we would still need evidence for that position as well. Personally, its my favorite hypothesis to consider.
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Re: Opinions Wanted
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2009, 06:22:34 pm »
At lunch today a co-worker and I were talking and somehow the subject of homosexuality came up, and I made the grave mistake of saying what I really thought about the subject.

I commented, rather off-handedly and probably altogether too casually, that I believed that homosexual behaviour was, scientifically speaking, a genetic mistake.

The co-worker went quickly ballistic.  Red faced, stuttering, apparently barely able to contain the urge to strike me.

Noticing this display I quickly added that I personally saw nothing wrong with homosexual behaviour, and that people should be able to fuck whoever they want (within obvious reason), but the co-worker was having none of it.

She blurted out "You're the last person I would have thought to be a homophobe", which both shocked and dismayed me.  Obviously my opinion on the scientific validity of homosexuality is not a popular one, but to be labeled a 'homophobe' should one not be against the practice of homosexuality?  I am honestly not, I don't care what others do sexually, and think men and men and women and women are fine... I just happen to believe that there is no genetic benefit to the practice, and therefor is probably a mistake in nature.

So, opinions... clearly I talk too much, and don't think enough about what I say before I speak, but am I a homophobe?

I don't think so.  I mean, it's clear that *I* am a genetic mistake, and you don't seem to hold it against me.  You certainly haven't tried to prevent me from having sex.  This may have been a grave error on your part, as I have managed to propagate that error not once but twice.

But you're wrong on one count.  Homosexuality is a survival trait in an overcrowded biome, when survival at the tribal level (or above) is considered.  It adds workers (hunters, etc), without adding additional mouths later.  Homosexuality (and, incidentally, insanity) also increases in frequency with population crowding, as demonstrated by the generic adaptative syndrome work done way back in the 50s (When we studied it in rats...Now you can walk out your front door and study it in humans).

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Hoopla!

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Re: Opinions Wanted
« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2009, 06:30:17 pm »

But you're wrong on one count.  Homosexuality is a survival trait in an overcrowded biome, when survival at the tribal level (or above) is considered.  It adds workers (hunters, etc), without adding additional mouths later.  Homosexuality (and, incidentally, insanity) also increases in frequency with population crowding, as demonstrated by the generic adaptative syndrome work done way back in the 50s (When we studied it in rats...Now you can walk out your front door and study it in humans).


Christ, I never considered this.  Brilliant and completely reasonable.



*edited to fix quotes*
« Last Edit: December 15, 2009, 06:41:37 pm by Hoopla »
“Soon all of us will have special names” — Professor Brian O’Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." — Bob Dylan?

"Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes" — Walt Whitman