Magic: Who thinks they can do it, and why otherwise intelligent people buy it.

[Dysfunctional Cunt]

"We decided it isn't Magic"

Sure LMNO, you and TGRR 'decided'. Crowley, Alli, Carroll, Hine, and dudes from as far back as at least the 1600's and as recent as books published in 2009 decided that it 'is magic'.

But, no... it's apparently much better for two people that don't make use of a system to define that system.

Oh come on, are you trying to say casting a circle and buring the right herbs and chanting some gobbledy gook has changed something in your life?  Healed someone?  Gotten you a job, significant other, money, possesions?  Anything?  

Seriously?

It wasn't the fact that you had to repeat the "spell" 3 times a day for 30 days and by the time that was done you had put it in your own mind for whatever to happen?  The rest was all trappings to make it seem all mystical and magical?

I've watched people in this thread who I have pretty much considered to be highly intelligent, well read, well spoken people turn into MW monkeys.  WTF?

I've tried it all.  In this instance, I prefer drugs to magic, at least with drugs I have an excuse for the stupidity.

[LMNO]

If I'm going to perform nonsensical actions for the purposes of changing my percieved reality, I'm going to go clubbing.

It's a lot more fun; and before I got married, it was a much better way to meet girls.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

If I'm going to perform nonsensical actions for the purposes of changing my percieved reality, I'm going to go clubbing.

It's a lot more fun; and before I got married, it was a much better way to meet girls.

But you're too old now.  If you weren't married, you'd be the 30-something guy in the club.

Remember that guy?

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Considering you have endorsed Crowley's definition of magic as "anything you want it to be," then yes.

I have endorsed Crowley's definition of magic as "Any act of Will" which is not anything you want it to be, but... whatever.

Oh come on, are you trying to say casting a circle and buring the right herbs and chanting some gobbledy gook has changed something in your life?  Healed someone?  Gotten you a job, significant other, money, possesions?  Anything?  

Seriously?

Nope, I'm saying that I have used rituals to make modifications to my perceptions, reactions, imprints etc. Which, is what Crowley claimed it could do, and Carroll etc.

And this year I made about $10,000 thanks to 'magic'.

It wasn't the fact that you had to repeat the "spell" 3 times a day for 30 days and by the time that was done you had put it in your own mind for whatever to happen?  The rest was all trappings to make it seem all mystical and magical?

I didn't repeat the "spell" 3 times a day for 30 days. I evoked a sigil once on the topic.. which is designed specifically to "put it in my own mind".. or rather to get it past my consciopus mind and embed it in the subconscious mind... exactly as laid out by the various authors mentioned earlier.

ALL of it is trappings but they do more than make is seem mystical and magical. Those "trappings" are semantic symbols, connections between physical reality and ideas in the mind of the practitioner. They perform the same job that other semantic tools perform, they represent a concept. The mapmaker is not an idiot, he knows that the blue squiggle line he just drew is NOT the river, but it can represent the river. The little humpy bits aren't The Mountains, but they can represent the mountains.

The "props" in magic work in a similar fashion... they're symbols, representations, psychological handles which we use to modify our consciousness.

But of course, thats some other magic... not the magic we're discussing here... this magic is about throwing fireballs, going to sabbats on top of mountains and dancing with the devil in the pale moonlight... apparently.

I've watched people in this thread who I have pretty much considered to be highly intelligent, well read, well spoken people turn into MW monkeys.  WTF?

I've tried it all.  In this instance, I prefer drugs to magic, at least with drugs I have an excuse for the stupidity.

I like drugs and magic, drugs can be useful sometimes, magic can be useful sometimes, both can be useless sometimes.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I've watched people in this thread who I have pretty much considered to be highly intelligent, well read, well spoken people turn into MW monkeys.  WTF?

QFT.

[East Coast Hustle]

I said "agreed", not "decided".

For the purposes of this thread, there is a big difference, as well you should know.

So your agreed definition of Magic is based on fantasy RPG, Harry Potter books and the 'pinealist' equivalent of pagans...

Ok then, Magic is 100% bullshit*


* as defined in this thread.

of course, the fact that 99% of the rest of the humans on earth subscribe to the same definition of magic as TGRR and LMNO are using ITT has no relevance, does it?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

And this year I made about $10,000 thanks to 'magic'.

There's this guy on late night infomercials who says he got rich putting ads in the paper.  He didn't explain how, either.

[East Coast Hustle]

I didn't repeat the "spell" 3 times a day for 30 days. I evoked a sigil once on the topic.. which is designed specifically to "put it in my own mind".. or rather to get it past my consciopus mind and embed it in the subconscious mind... exactly as laid out by the various authors mentioned earlier.

ALL of it is trappings but they do more than make is seem mystical and magical. Those "trappings" are semantic symbols, connections between physical reality and ideas in the mind of the practitioner. They perform the same job that other semantic tools perform, they represent a concept. The mapmaker is not an idiot, he knows that the blue squiggle line he just drew is NOT the river, but it can represent the river. The little humpy bits aren't The Mountains, but they can represent the mountains.

The "props" in magic work in a similar fashion... they're symbols, representations, psychological handles which we use to modify our consciousness.

this is no different from, say, a professional baseball player who is convinced he can't throw his curveball effectively unless he brushes his teeth between innings.

in other words, needless superstition.

[Dysfunctional Cunt]

And this year I made about $10,000 thanks to 'magic'.

There's this guy on late night infomercials who says he got rich putting ads in the paper.  He didn't explain how, either.

EXACTLY!!!

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I said "agreed", not "decided".

For the purposes of this thread, there is a big difference, as well you should know.

So your agreed definition of Magic is based on fantasy RPG, Harry Potter books and the 'pinealist' equivalent of pagans...

Ok then, Magic is 100% bullshit*


* as defined in this thread.

of course, the fact that 99% of the rest of the humans on earth subscribe to the same definition of magic as TGRR and LMNO are using ITT has no relevance, does it?

Loads of people in China and large portions of Africa still believe in magic.  So they kill rhinoceri for spell ingredients, and kill their neighbors for being witches or for being possessed by demons.  None of it works, and those areas of the world just keep getting worse and worse, because they rely on mumbo jumbo that doesn't work to deal with problems that are fucking them up royally.

[LMNO]

If I'm going to perform nonsensical actions for the purposes of changing my percieved reality, I'm going to go clubbing.

It's a lot more fun; and before I got married, it was a much better way to meet girls.

But you're too old now.  If you weren't married, you'd be the 30-something guy in the club.

Remember that guy?

A tango club is still a club.


LMNO
-gotta get classier as the joints begin to fail.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

If I'm going to perform nonsensical actions for the purposes of changing my percieved reality, I'm going to go clubbing.

It's a lot more fun; and before I got married, it was a much better way to meet girls.

But you're too old now.  If you weren't married, you'd be the 30-something guy in the club.

Remember that guy?

A tango club is still a club.


LMNO
-gotta get classier as the joints begin to fail.

I stand corrected.  Sorry, I know a guy who has maintained the club lifestyle for a few years too many, and it pains me.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I said "agreed", not "decided".

For the purposes of this thread, there is a big difference, as well you should know.

So your agreed definition of Magic is based on fantasy RPG, Harry Potter books and the 'pinealist' equivalent of pagans...

Ok then, Magic is 100% bullshit*


* as defined in this thread.

of course, the fact that 99% of the rest of the humans on earth subscribe to the same definition of magic as TGRR and LMNO are using ITT has no relevance, does it?

99% of Discordians think that Discordinaism is about OMGZ23PINEALFNORD!

[LMNO]

Some hear about Discordia, and plot against the Machine™.
Some hear about Discordia, and think about it at great length.
Some hear about Discordia, and decide it means they should get high and doodle.
If it weren't for those spags, Discordia wouldn't be as interesting as it is.

Order appears calming and sensible.
Disorder appears unsettling and unstable.
Doubt appears ignorant.
Certainty appears true.
Agression appears confident.
Mirth appears uncaring.
Horror appears powerless.
All these are lies.

Uncertainty reveals itself as a narrow footbridge,
but with its heart in Chaos, the path is clear.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

And this year I made about $10,000 thanks to 'magic'.

There's this guy on late night infomercials who says he got rich putting ads in the paper.  He didn't explain how, either.

EXACTLY!!!

I've explained how a number of times on this forum... but I'll do it again, in case it was missed.

1. Read several books on magic, occult, chaos magic, etc. including most of the authors I keep mentioning.

2. Decided to try the stuff out after understanding that all of them seemed to be treating it as "self-acutalized psychological metaprogramming"

3. Chose 'sigils' as they seemed like a pretty simple option.

4. Created a sigil which represented the intent that I would meet and speak to all of these various authors within a year.

5. Did the ritual.

6. Within 6 months I had stumbled into Maybe Logic Academy after a few weeks there they got hacked and while I normally would not have offered... the thought of that sigil kicked in and I decided to see if I could help them with their issue. Turns out they needed someone to manage the technical stuff and I was soon having phone conversations with Bob Wilson, Peter Carroll, Antero Alli and Phil Farber. In 2009 I made about $10,000 from he academy and it's new offshoots.

And then there was the time I invoked Therion and spent a good 20 minutes wandering around as a 7 headed wild beast.... that fucked me up for a bit.

Or the time I accidentally invoked Eris and chatted with her for awhile... it was more realistic than any hallucinogenic trip I've taken.

However, I don't think that these things happened outside of my head. I think it is certainly possible to achieve the level of metaprogramming that I have without those tools... but it requires more training in other areas (meditation, etc).