Magic: Who thinks they can do it, and why otherwise intelligent people buy it.

[NotPublished]

It doesn't even have to involve self-trickery, thats for people who are bad at coping in certain situations.

Its almost like playing a game of Sodoku, gotta becareful where you put the numbers - sometimes you gotta plan a few steps ahead.

I might go as far to say that you have a similar paradigm - since you said you force yourself the way you think.
From my POV - All there is, is you - and you choose how to think, you apply the mould onto the cookie dough and cut off the excess and give it shape. You might have a mould of a bear, star, tree. You use which mould depending on what suits you best at the moment.

[Jasper]

Why is magic restricted to self trickery?  I thought the whole purpose of 'stage magic' was to trick other people, thereby altering their realities.  Magic.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I think this self trickery stuff is getting misinterpreted a bit...

You only have to "fool yourselves" for a bit... the "moment of gnosis" if we used Carroll's language. It's sleight of mind, in that you are trying to distract your conscious mind from thinking too hard on the specific bits you're playing with.

I mean, most of the traditional means of achieving the state aren't really 'fooling' much at all. High Ritual Magic makes use of complicated rituals and props specifically to draw you into the process, completely involving your conscious mind in the matter at hand. Now often those props were specific symbols involved in the overall 'message'. The ritual is keeping your mind busy, while embedding the semantic connection between the physical visual cue and the ideas/concept associated with the visual cue. Tarot and Astrology  'work' ion a similar way (as far as I can tell)... I have never predicted the future with any accuracy at all with them... but I've had some incredible self-reflective moments of personal insight when using the mindset and understanding the the symbols (visual cues) involved.

I don't think 'magic' works for everyone because some of people have a Very very strong bullshit detector (aka Psychic Censor). In theory, that just means the person hasn't found the right type of 'gnosis' to overcome their block. (The right sleight of mind to sneak past).

Also, some forms of magic don't require self-trickery, just self-programming.

[East Coast Hustle]

If I want to imprint something forcefully in my mind, I just DO it. I don't need to use sigils or tarot cards or chicken bones or any of that shit to help me decide and/or remember to do something I've decided to place particular importance on. And frankly, I don't see how it's productive to continue using that stuff when you're conscious of the fact that it's not necessary. You have more to gain by being in control of your own mind than you do by playing what amounts to an elaborate game of "make the baby eat its food by pretending it's an airplane" with yourself.

[Jasper]

playing what amounts to an elaborate game of "make the baby eat its food by pretending it's an airplane" with yourself.

I think FP just won the thread. 

[P3nT4gR4m]

You have more to gain by being in control of your own mind than you do by playing what amounts to an elaborate game of "make the baby eat its food by pretending it's an airplane" with yourself.

problem is that, in a lot of respects, thats exactly how your subconscious mind works and if you're not affecting/communicating directly with the subconscious then you're only scratching the surface of what can be achieved.

[Dysfunctional Cunt]

My problem is that if I know I'm tricking myself, it won't work.  My bullshit filter is permanently set at the 11 button.

I just force myself to change the way I think.  That and Death Coffee...enough of that, and you can do anything for about 3 hours.

If I want to imprint something forcefully in my mind, I just DO it. I don't need to use sigils or tarot cards or chicken bones or any of that shit to help me decide and/or remember to do something I've decided to place particular importance on. And frankly, I don't see how it's productive to continue using that stuff when you're conscious of the fact that it's not necessary. You have more to gain by being in control of your own mind than you do by playing what amounts to an elaborate game of "make the baby eat its food by pretending it's an airplane" with yourself.

If you combine the above, with a lot of sticky notes to remind myself, I'm good.

I could never be an effective "magic" user, practicioner or whatever you want o call it even if it were a proven set in stone science.  I can't remember shit.  It's not pretty to be stirring the cauldron and cackling then having to grab your notes to remember the "Double double" shit. 

When I want a change, it goes on my bathroom and bedroom mirrors and sometimes at work on sticky notes.  After a couple of days (if I'm lucky) I remember, this is how or what I'm doing now.

Otherwise, eh, I still think it's mainly bullshit.  The trappings are there so people can feel like they are "doing" something. 

It would probably be better for many involved if the trappings were a sensible diet and excercise.....   

[Triple Zero]

My problem is that if I know I'm tricking myself, it won't work.  My bullshit filter is permanently set at the 11 button.

Same here.

Can I shut it off?

Should I shut it off?

If I do, can I easily switch it back on?

How?

[Dysfunctional Cunt]

My problem is that if I know I'm tricking myself, it won't work.  My bullshit filter is permanently set at the 11 button.

Same here.

Can I shut it off?

Should I shut it off?

If I do, can I easily switch it back on?

How?

Yes, you can shut it off.

No you should never shut it off unless the next thing you might or might not hear is someone shouting "CLEAR"

Nothing is ever easy, YOU KNOW THIS!!

You really don't want to know how!!!   

[The Good Reverend Roger]

My problem is that if I know I'm tricking myself, it won't work.  My bullshit filter is permanently set at the 11 button.

Same here.

Can I shut it off?

Should I shut it off?

If I do, can I easily switch it back on?

How?

I like it left on.  When I watch politicians, all I hear is static.

[East Coast Hustle]

You have more to gain by being in control of your own mind than you do by playing what amounts to an elaborate game of "make the baby eat its food by pretending it's an airplane" with yourself.

problem is that, in a lot of respects, thats exactly how your subconscious mind works and if you're not affecting/communicating directly with the subconscious then you're only scratching the surface of what can be achieved.

thank you, Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh.

now, anyone got any scientifically valid counterpoints to my post?

[Triple Zero]

My problem is that if I know I'm tricking myself, it won't work.  My bullshit filter is permanently set at the 11 button.

Same here.

Can I shut it off?

Should I shut it off?

If I do, can I easily switch it back on?

How?

I like it left on.  When I watch politicians, all I hear is static.

That's probably blood pressure rushing in your ears

[The Good Reverend Roger]

My problem is that if I know I'm tricking myself, it won't work.  My bullshit filter is permanently set at the 11 button.

Same here.

Can I shut it off?

Should I shut it off?

If I do, can I easily switch it back on?

How?

I like it left on.  When I watch politicians, all I hear is static.

That's probably blood pressure rushing in your ears

One or the other.

[Epimetheus]

Yeah I like my filter left on at all times too. Saves me lots of otherwise wasted time.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Yeah I like my filter left on at all times too. Saves me lots of otherwise wasted time.

Chevrolet banana big fucking hot dogs.