MAKE MONEY TELLING STUPID PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT TO HEAR, SRSLY.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Randi is full of shit for the same reason that the Brights and Dawkins are full of shit... they BELIEVE that they KNOW something. Their Dogma is as paralyzing to their thinking as Pat Robertsons is... just in a different direction. It's pseudo-skepticism at its finest. Randi and Dawkins both have exposed themselves as people who are out to DISPROVE rather than people who are out looking for information. Their BiP is full of NO, CAN'T and IMPOSSIBLE; Solider, Solider Solider and not one hunchback among them.

Yeah, true.

Still, I have yet to meet a real psychic or see any phenomena I can't explain.

If you can point me to one real psychic, I'll go and find out myself.

Ah but that's not the point. There may be no psychic powers at all... there may be no unexplainable phenomena, but its dishonest to claim to be skeptical when working from the negative position, just as it is dishonest to claim to be skeptical while working from the positive position. The skeptic must work from the neutral position.

So rather than saying "Past performance is indicative of future results", the skeptic should say "Show me". Not "I dont believe, show me..." cause the bars of your BiP might get in the way.

So what you're really saying is "Of the people who claimed to be psychic, I have found rational ways to possibly explain their tricks without psychic powers" HOWEVER, that doesn't mean that your explanation is necessarily correct, only that it COULD be correct.

So, let us say Bob is taking a psychic test and during which he has to go to the bathroom.  Now, his test results come back very high... and we could say :"Ah, but he could have gotten secret answers on the toilet paper roll, therefore he's a sham!" This is not necessarily true, for although he COULD HAVE, we do not know that he DID... and a skeptic should be skeptical of ALL positions, without hard evidence (like the toilet paper with the answers on it ).

Personally, I have not met a psychic that ever provided me with an experience that appeared legitimate. However, that is my opinion, I cannot prove that it wasn't. Further, simply because the loud, profiteering punks that claim the term may be full of shit, we do not know that extrasensory phenomena cannot, or do not exist... only that a lot of hairless monkeys are making claims that appear unjustifiable.

Let us, for the sake of argument say that some humans process sensory data far better than others, through body language, pheromones, maybe even electromagnetic fields (we know now that cats appear able to sense some things that way)... if we are evolved and evolving creatures, it seems possible that we may have throwback traits like our animal ancestors (like body language sense and pheromones), or we may have a new trait which makes it easier to sense electromagnetic fields (simply by a genetic fluke). Let us further say that this appears in 1 in 100,000,000 humans. So if 1 in 100,000 claim to be psychic and 1 in 100,000,000 have this supersensory perception... it would be easy to dismiss all claims as fraudulent, when in fact there would be rare (and possibly very interesting) cases that should have further investigation.

Yet, if we approach from the negative, those might be entirely missed. I had some other point, but I forget what it was, so I'ma stop typing now.

[LMNO]

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

[Lies]

Randi is full of shit for the same reason that the Brights and Dawkins are full of shit... they BELIEVE that they KNOW something. Their Dogma is as paralyzing to their thinking as Pat Robertsons is... just in a different direction. It's pseudo-skepticism at its finest. Randi and Dawkins both have exposed themselves as people who are out to DISPROVE rather than people who are out looking for information. Their BiP is full of NO, CAN'T and IMPOSSIBLE; Solider, Solider Solider and not one hunchback among them.

Yeah, true.

Still, I have yet to meet a real psychic or see any phenomena I can't explain.

If you can point me to one real psychic, I'll go and find out myself.

Ah but that's not the point. There may be no psychic powers at all... there may be no unexplainable phenomena, but its dishonest to claim to be skeptical when working from the negative position, just as it is dishonest to claim to be skeptical while working from the positive position. The skeptic must work from the neutral position.

So rather than saying "Past performance is indicative of future results", the skeptic should say "Show me". Not "I dont believe, show me..." cause the bars of your BiP might get in the way.

So what you're really saying is "Of the people who claimed to be psychic, I have found rational ways to possibly explain their tricks without psychic powers" HOWEVER, that doesn't mean that your explanation is necessarily correct, only that it COULD be correct.

So, let us say Bob is taking a psychic test and during which he has to go to the bathroom.  Now, his test results come back very high... and we could say :"Ah, but he could have gotten secret answers on the toilet paper roll, therefore he's a sham!" This is not necessarily true, for although he COULD HAVE, we do not know that he DID... and a skeptic should be skeptical of ALL positions, without hard evidence (like the toilet paper with the answers on it ).

Personally, I have not met a psychic that ever provided me with an experience that appeared legitimate. However, that is my opinion, I cannot prove that it wasn't. Further, simply because the loud, profiteering punks that claim the term may be full of shit, we do not know that extrasensory phenomena cannot, or do not exist... only that a lot of hairless monkeys are making claims that appear unjustifiable.

Let us, for the sake of argument say that some humans process sensory data far better than others, through body language, pheromones, maybe even electromagnetic fields (we know now that cats appear able to sense some things that way)... if we are evolved and evolving creatures, it seems possible that we may have throwback traits like our animal ancestors (like body language sense and pheromones), or we may have a new trait which makes it easier to sense electromagnetic fields (simply by a genetic fluke). Let us further say that this appears in 1 in 100,000,000 humans. So if 1 in 100,000 claim to be psychic and 1 in 100,000,000 have this supersensory perception... it would be easy to dismiss all claims as fraudulent, when in fact there would be rare (and possibly very interesting) cases that should have further investigation.

Yet, if we approach from the negative, those might be entirely missed. I had some other point, but I forget what it was, so I'ma stop typing now.

I hear what you're saying, and while I don't think you're wrong, I don't think you're right either.

In any case, it doesn't bother me one iota what people believe when it comes to these things.
If they do, it only helps me when it comes to what I do.

[Doktor Howl]

MY CRYSTAL BALLS SAY THAT EVEN DO YOU AIM TO RIP PEOPLE OFF OF THEIR HARD EARNED MONEY THAT COULD GO TO THEIR CHILDREN (BY ERIS! THINK OF THE CHILDREN!) THAT DEEP DOWN YOU ARE JUST RESENTED AND HAVE A REPRESSED LOVE FOR YOUR MOM AND WANT TO KILL YOUR FATHER, ALSO THAT YOU HAVE A LATENT HOMOSEXUALITY THAT IS EVIDENCED THRU YOUR REJECTAL OF A BED FULL OF GREEN MONEYS AND NAKED BELLA (AND BY ERIS! WHAT IS HOTTER THAN A GIRL WITH THE SAME NAME AS THE MISTRESS OF A SPARKLY VAMPIRE!)

~~~~~



I missed that the first time round you little cuntflap.

You'd better shut your fucking diseased mouth, get back to fapping off in your dingy third world basement to your unfulfilled dreams, desperate for escaping your dire life through your pointless fantasies of stardom, and get back to the more real issues here, of perhaps going back to my original assessment of you way back all those posts ago, hopefully contracting some sort of lingering slow acting malignant brain cancer, and dying slowly and painfully in face down, alone, in the dirt. with everyone you have ever loved die first.

Now that.

Would be. (!!whoops my "sarcastic amusing italics" fell off!!) 

Fucking.

Outlandish.

to recap, I hope you die young, alone and in crippling pain with all your dreams broken like the cracked tiny pieces of old china doll's dashed from an elderly woman's shelf by her doddery hand while dusting the mantle.

Aids would probably do. Or, infact, this is far sweeter, I hope for you to impregnate someone, and give them an aids baby, while you yourself did not know you were infected, and for the mother to find out, and then kill herself, by ripping your unborn son out of her womb and screaming "why jon why did you give me this aids baby"? before cursing you with her last living breath.

I hope all your good kids die during birth man, and only the freak ones with mewling tooth eye sockets and hungry mouth stomachs serve full term, and, shit, your own grandmother has to abort them by drowning them in the town well, and the greif stops that old bitches heart. bam.

Man, I hope you get raped to fucking death by knife wielding gang members, who like to fuck where they cut, and cut where they fuck and they like to cut your fucking eyes and fuck you in the fucking socket, till the last thing you feel is their hot semen entering your brain as you feel shooting pains in your arms and legs as you stroke to death as they orgasm in your fucking tumerous cancer ridden brain you little shit fuck.

& the worst part.

I'M NOT KIDDING.

You basen my mother, my father, and my wife and many other things dear to me all in one paragraph you diseased piece of filth. By all means slander me every which way to sunset, but, do you even have a fucking clue what you are saying? Do you? DO YOU? You fucked up piece of subhuman detritus. Are you intentionaly trying to push my fucking buttons?

Well guess what skippy. You did. You've wound up the key in my fucking back, and now the spring is going tick tick tick.

I've stepped in roadkill better than you, and met glue sniffing sewer childeren that were better off than you to live. Do the fucking world a favour and take Ripper The Razors advice. Down the street NOT across the road. ok?

I'm going to follow you round this (and any other I can locate you on) forum repeating my mantra of hate against you. And please. Do not make the mistake of thinking I am

a. joking or b. doing some kind of 'arastocrats' thing. I'm not. I mean ALL of it.

Enjoy seeing this jon. A lot. everywhere. hasta la fucking vista ya cocknozzle.

Can anyone translate that into el 'fuckin spanish so I know my message is not lost in translation?


~~~~~


Lys: does saying to Randi "Hey Randi, dude, I KNOW FOR A FACT you are not going to give me this million, as I predicted it with my powers" net you a million or does Randi's head assplode?

That was amazing.

[hooplala]

Hi, everybody! I'm back......at least for the moment.

This thread was irresistible.


For exactly 10 years this month, I've been making my living reading tarot cards via a site called keen.com Prior to that, I worked as crisis counselor and victim advocate. The sole reason I switched to reading cards is $$$. I was a single mom making hardly enough money to get by until the switch to reading cards quadrupled my formerly pathetic income.

Do I tell people what they want to hear? Not unless it's really what I see in the cards.
Do I practice cold reading?  No. I have no objection to someone doing cold readings, but it's no way to build a solid base of returning customers.
Do I refer my callers to more traditional sources of help? All the time.
Do I feel bad about charging a shitload of money? Nope.

My conscience bothered me a little until I realized that what the people want is a friendly stranger they can bare their souls to without having to face any repercussions in real life - just like Alty said. They don't want to be told they're spending too much money or calling too often or becoming dependent on their psychic.  

Bella,

Who sleeps on that bed of money next to the Love Stoat.

Bella, while you may be thinking you aren't telling people anything but what the cards tell you, and that you're not doing cold reading, I disagree.

Having researched and tried all different sorts of divination techniques and having a keen interest in psychic abilities and how things can *seem* psychic but are not (this is me doing some "psychic" entertainment http://www.youtube.com/user/TheGoodRevFelix#p/a/u/1/7OSDTotEHIQ) and knowing that to most people can't tell the difference between "genuine" psychics and charlatans like myself, I believe that pretty much all diviners who think they're legit have just convinced themselves that what they are doing is real, but really, you're just using cold reading and feeding the people what they want to hear, even if you think you're not.

I've met a few 'psychics' in my time who claim not to use cold reading, yet when I get them to show me what they can do, it all amounts to cold reading, they just don't "label" it as such in their minds.
The only difference between what I do (or any professional mentalist) and what they do is, I can get better results then them because I actually understand the process, where as they are just just really guessing and using barnum statements without knowing what constitutes as a barnum statement.

Please though, don't get me wrong, while I do have my doubts as to your "authenticity", it's interesting to see what one such as yourself would have to say about the practice, and I heartily encourage such mindfuckery.

Who knows, maybe there really is such a thing as psychic ability. I know your cat believes in it, Bella

This is possibly the most pompous and insulting post I have ever read on this forum.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Hi, everybody! I'm back......at least for the moment.

This thread was irresistible.


For exactly 10 years this month, I've been making my living reading tarot cards via a site called keen.com Prior to that, I worked as crisis counselor and victim advocate. The sole reason I switched to reading cards is $$$. I was a single mom making hardly enough money to get by until the switch to reading cards quadrupled my formerly pathetic income.

Do I tell people what they want to hear? Not unless it's really what I see in the cards.
Do I practice cold reading?  No. I have no objection to someone doing cold readings, but it's no way to build a solid base of returning customers.
Do I refer my callers to more traditional sources of help? All the time.
Do I feel bad about charging a shitload of money? Nope.

My conscience bothered me a little until I realized that what the people want is a friendly stranger they can bare their souls to without having to face any repercussions in real life - just like Alty said. They don't want to be told they're spending too much money or calling too often or becoming dependent on their psychic.  

Bella,

Who sleeps on that bed of money next to the Love Stoat.

Bella, while you may be thinking you aren't telling people anything but what the cards tell you, and that you're not doing cold reading, I disagree.

Having researched and tried all different sorts of divination techniques and having a keen interest in psychic abilities and how things can *seem* psychic but are not (this is me doing some "psychic" entertainment http://www.youtube.com/user/TheGoodRevFelix#p/a/u/1/7OSDTotEHIQ) and knowing that to most people can't tell the difference between "genuine" psychics and charlatans like myself, I believe that pretty much all diviners who think they're legit have just convinced themselves that what they are doing is real, but really, you're just using cold reading and feeding the people what they want to hear, even if you think you're not.

I've met a few 'psychics' in my time who claim not to use cold reading, yet when I get them to show me what they can do, it all amounts to cold reading, they just don't "label" it as such in their minds.
The only difference between what I do (or any professional mentalist) and what they do is, I can get better results then them because I actually understand the process, where as they are just just really guessing and using barnum statements without knowing what constitutes as a barnum statement.

Please though, don't get me wrong, while I do have my doubts as to your "authenticity", it's interesting to see what one such as yourself would have to say about the practice, and I heartily encourage such mindfuckery.

Who knows, maybe there really is such a thing as psychic ability. I know your cat believes in it, Bella

This is possibly the most pompous and insulting post I have ever read on this forum.

Insulting perhaps, but I have to say, Lys has a point there...

[Doktor Howl]

Hi, everybody! I'm back......at least for the moment.

This thread was irresistible.


For exactly 10 years this month, I've been making my living reading tarot cards via a site called keen.com Prior to that, I worked as crisis counselor and victim advocate. The sole reason I switched to reading cards is $$$. I was a single mom making hardly enough money to get by until the switch to reading cards quadrupled my formerly pathetic income.

Do I tell people what they want to hear? Not unless it's really what I see in the cards.
Do I practice cold reading?  No. I have no objection to someone doing cold readings, but it's no way to build a solid base of returning customers.
Do I refer my callers to more traditional sources of help? All the time.
Do I feel bad about charging a shitload of money? Nope.

My conscience bothered me a little until I realized that what the people want is a friendly stranger they can bare their souls to without having to face any repercussions in real life - just like Alty said. They don't want to be told they're spending too much money or calling too often or becoming dependent on their psychic.  

Bella,

Who sleeps on that bed of money next to the Love Stoat.

Bella, while you may be thinking you aren't telling people anything but what the cards tell you, and that you're not doing cold reading, I disagree.

Having researched and tried all different sorts of divination techniques and having a keen interest in psychic abilities and how things can *seem* psychic but are not (this is me doing some "psychic" entertainment http://www.youtube.com/user/TheGoodRevFelix#p/a/u/1/7OSDTotEHIQ) and knowing that to most people can't tell the difference between "genuine" psychics and charlatans like myself, I believe that pretty much all diviners who think they're legit have just convinced themselves that what they are doing is real, but really, you're just using cold reading and feeding the people what they want to hear, even if you think you're not.

I've met a few 'psychics' in my time who claim not to use cold reading, yet when I get them to show me what they can do, it all amounts to cold reading, they just don't "label" it as such in their minds.
The only difference between what I do (or any professional mentalist) and what they do is, I can get better results then them because I actually understand the process, where as they are just just really guessing and using barnum statements without knowing what constitutes as a barnum statement.

Please though, don't get me wrong, while I do have my doubts as to your "authenticity", it's interesting to see what one such as yourself would have to say about the practice, and I heartily encourage such mindfuckery.

Who knows, maybe there really is such a thing as psychic ability. I know your cat believes in it, Bella

This is possibly the most pompous and insulting post I have ever read on this forum.

Telling people what they really believe is in vogue, these days.

[Doktor Howl]

Insulting perhaps, but I have to say, Lys has a point there...

Other than the one on the top of his head, you mean?

Where?

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Insulting perhaps, but I have to say, Lys has a point there...

Other than the one on the top of his head, you mean?

Where?

In my observations... most people that seem to truly believe they're psychic, or tarot readers etc... are subconsciously doing the same sort of stuff Lys is talking about, call it cold reading or not. I don't know if they're deluding themselves, or just don't realize they're doing it, because they're naturally good at reading people or what... but "what the cards tell me" IMO translates directly to "what my subconscious translates the cards to mean" which (in most cases) seems to be affected by the person sitting across from them.

[Rococo Modem Basilisk]

Insulting perhaps, but I have to say, Lys has a point there...

Other than the one on the top of his head, you mean?

Where?

In my observations... most people that seem to truly believe they're psychic, or tarot readers etc... are subconsciously doing the same sort of stuff Lys is talking about, call it cold reading or not. I don't know if they're deluding themselves, or just don't realize they're doing it, because they're naturally good at reading people or what... but "what the cards tell me" IMO translates directly to "what my subconscious translates the cards to mean" which (in most cases) seems to be affected by the person sitting across from them.

Which of course does not make it any less useful. In the rare cases when the goal is something other than "make lots of dough", it is probably beneficial not to be doing by-the-book cold reading and to instead let the law of fives take over.

[hooplala]

Insulting perhaps, but I have to say, Lys has a point there...

Other than the one on the top of his head, you mean?

Where?

In my observations... most people that seem to truly believe they're psychic, or tarot readers etc... are subconsciously doing the same sort of stuff Lys is talking about, call it cold reading or not. I don't know if they're deluding themselves, or just don't realize they're doing it, because they're naturally good at reading people or what... but "what the cards tell me" IMO translates directly to "what my subconscious translates the cards to mean" which (in most cases) seems to be affected by the person sitting across from them.

Or maybe they are -crazy idea- relating what the standard meanings of the cards are?  Sounds nutso, I know, but yes some people know what the meanings (multiple and many-layered meanings) of the cards are, and are able to explain them to someone who knows nothing about the cards.

How insane!

One does not need to believe they are psychic to read tarot cards.  The cards have standard meanings and it is the job of the reader to simply interpret or translate the meaning.

[Doktor Howl]

Insulting perhaps, but I have to say, Lys has a point there...

Other than the one on the top of his head, you mean?

Where?

In my observations... most people that seem to truly believe they're psychic, or tarot readers etc... are subconsciously doing the same sort of stuff Lys is talking about, call it cold reading or not. I don't know if they're deluding themselves, or just don't realize they're doing it, because they're naturally good at reading people or what... but "what the cards tell me" IMO translates directly to "what my subconscious translates the cards to mean" which (in most cases) seems to be affected by the person sitting across from them.

I trust you have recorded and tabulated these observations for peer review?

[hooplala]

 

[LMNO]

I trust you have recorded and tabulated these observations for peer review?

I now have in my head a mental image, entitled:

"THE MAD SCIENTIST PEER REVIEW BOARD"