Science shows that hippies are morons

[Bruno]

HA! This is funnier than all those people who got sick from eating raw spinach and tomatoes a while back.





Jerry_Frankster,

Boils his salad

The difference between something like unpasteurized milk and raw vegetables is that raw vegetables are not normally a highly perishable growth medium for poisonous bacteria. Your comment is like drawing a parallel between unpasteurized mayonnaise and that one time all those people got e. coli from mishandled cantaloupe at Sizzler.

ie, stupid.

Fair enough. It was meant to be hyperbole anyway.

The similarity between the two, as you said in your comment about making carrot juice and getting milk from your own cow is that of improper handling. Even pasteurized milk can be dangerous if it is handled improperly. Pasteurization just reduces the risk caused by shipping the milk of a hundred or more cows across the country in a tanker truck. If people are handling unpasteurized milk the same as pasteurized milk, then they can expect to get sick.

Also, this is one case where some people got sick from mishandled raw milk from Whole Foods.

So basically,

Drinking raw milk because you like raw milk = not stupid

Drinking raw milk because ZOMG!! CONSPIRACY!!! = stupid

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Anything that stems from ZOMG CONSPIRACY tends to be stupid.

Or at least thats what they WANT you to think!

[Doktor Howl]

MMR may be linked to autism paper no matter how alarmist and badly researched it was.

Righteo.  Keep on believin'.

[Bruno]

Anything that stems from ZOMG CONSPIRACY tends to be stupid.

Or at least thats what they WANT you to think!

Tinfoil hats are supposed to be made of TIN not Aluminum!

It's all a conspiracy by the Aluminum companies to give conspiracy theorists Alzheimer's!!!

[East Coast Hustle]

Then there's naturopathy and the current (multibillion-dollar industry) "gluten allergy" craze... well, 'nuff said.

Oh, goddammit.  My aunt really DOES have a problem with Gluten, so I never hear the end of this shit from my mother, who is ALL ABOUT every medical fad that comes down the line (and she's a goddamn trained scientist).  Even as a teenager, I have never been rude to my mother in my life, but I finally blew up when she interrupted some work I was doing to tell me what "Dr Oz" just said about whatever the hell he was babbling about this week.

I can't stand that shit.  Serious as hell.  It's fucking worse than when she was a devotee of John Edwards, and wouldn't listen to her training, me, my father, or anyone else who pointed out his rather clumsy cold reading technique.

What kills me is that she's a smart person, who in this one respect acts dumb.

Yeah, I have a friend with Celiac disease, which will kill him if he eats wheat.

And my mom actually IS lactose intolerant, badly.

What I have a problem with is the health fad industry that springs up around this crap.

ECHGF has Celiac's, and as a result I have done ALOT of research on the subject. Turns out, if you don't have celiac's or a gluten allergy (the two are similar but not the same) it is mildly detrimental to go on a gluten-free diet. Not that the nature of the diet itself is bad for you, but just going gluten free without making some other adjustments will, in the long term, usually lead to some mild nutrient deficiencies.

Alright, you sound like you've done your homework. Can I ask you a question?

Chloe has been told that she has Celiac's, as a result of some stomach problems she had as a kid. When she became a teenager, the symptoms went away. They told her that teenagers often don't have any noticeable symptoms even though gluten is still toxic to them. What little I've read on the web seems to support that some people are asymptomatic, and the damage may be subtly affecting their bowels or stomach.

So a few years back, (post teenager now) she decided that it was mind over matter and began eating gluten again. Nothing bad happened to her, at least visibly. Is it possible that this is actually giving her stomach cancer? Should I be talking her out of eating bagels and beer?

Gluten allergies can disappear/reappear over time, AFAIK celiac's is genetic so it won't ever go away, even if symptoms subside at some point. Introducing gluten into the digestive tract of a celiac's sufferer affects the way the digestive tract breaks down food and absorbs nutrients. Eating something gluten-laden just once can prevent proper nutrient absorption for several days afterward. Constantly eating gluten-containing foods will lead to constant low-level malnourishment in the best of cases. If symptoms reappear (and this can be sudden and after prolonged periods of being asymptomatic), you may end up having to make a run to the ER for emergency rehydration due to uncontrollable vomiting and/or diarrhea. As for long-term effects, if someone has a gluten allergy and doesn't go one a gluten-free diet, there's a pretty good chance they'll die a gruesome death from some rare and fucked-up stomach/intestinal cancer. If they have celiacs and don't go on a gluten-free diet, it's just about guaranteed.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Then there's naturopathy and the current (multibillion-dollar industry) "gluten allergy" craze... well, 'nuff said.

Oh, goddammit.  My aunt really DOES have a problem with Gluten, so I never hear the end of this shit from my mother, who is ALL ABOUT every medical fad that comes down the line (and she's a goddamn trained scientist).  Even as a teenager, I have never been rude to my mother in my life, but I finally blew up when she interrupted some work I was doing to tell me what "Dr Oz" just said about whatever the hell he was babbling about this week.

I can't stand that shit.  Serious as hell.  It's fucking worse than when she was a devotee of John Edwards, and wouldn't listen to her training, me, my father, or anyone else who pointed out his rather clumsy cold reading technique.

What kills me is that she's a smart person, who in this one respect acts dumb.

Yeah, I have a friend with Celiac disease, which will kill him if he eats wheat.

And my mom actually IS lactose intolerant, badly.

What I have a problem with is the health fad industry that springs up around this crap.

ECHGF has Celiac's, and as a result I have done ALOT of research on the subject. Turns out, if you don't have celiac's or a gluten allergy (the two are similar but not the same) it is mildly detrimental to go on a gluten-free diet. Not that the nature of the diet itself is bad for you, but just going gluten free without making some other adjustments will, in the long term, usually lead to some mild nutrient deficiencies.

Alright, you sound like you've done your homework. Can I ask you a question?

Chloe has been told that she has Celiac's, as a result of some stomach problems she had as a kid. When she became a teenager, the symptoms went away. They told her that teenagers often don't have any noticeable symptoms even though gluten is still toxic to them. What little I've read on the web seems to support that some people are asymptomatic, and the damage may be subtly affecting their bowels or stomach.

So a few years back, (post teenager now) she decided that it was mind over matter and began eating gluten again. Nothing bad happened to her, at least visibly. Is it possible that this is actually giving her stomach cancer? Should I be talking her out of eating bagels and beer?

Gluten allergies can disappear/reappear over time, AFAIK celiac's is genetic so it won't ever go away, even if symptoms subside at some point. Introducing gluten into the digestive tract of a celiac's sufferer affects the way the digestive tract breaks down food and absorbs nutrients. Eating something gluten-laden just once can prevent proper nutrient absorption for several days afterward. Constantly eating gluten-containing foods will lead to constant low-level malnourishment in the best of cases. If symptoms reappear (and this can be sudden and after prolonged periods of being asymptomatic), you may end up having to make a run to the ER for emergency rehydration due to uncontrollable vomiting and/or diarrhea. As for long-term effects, if someone has a gluten allergy and doesn't go one a gluten-free diet, there's a pretty good chance they'll die a gruesome death from some rare and fucked-up stomach/intestinal cancer. If they have celiacs and don't go on a gluten-free diet, it's just about guaranteed.

DAMN.

[East Coast Hustle]

ECHGF has Celiac's, and as a result I have done ALOT of research on the subject. Turns out, if you don't have celiac's or a gluten allergy (the two are similar but not the same) it is mildly detrimental to go on a gluten-free diet. Not that the nature of the diet itself is bad for you, but just going gluten free without making some other adjustments will, in the long term, usually lead to some mild nutrient deficiencies.

Can you post a link for that?  I have a few people that need to STFU about "GLUTEN BAD FOR EVERYONE UNNG", and your post is the best news I've heard all morning.

I swear to God, ECH, these health fad Nazis are the fucking worst.

I'll dig around. I've read so much on the subject at this point that pinpointing a source may take a bit and have to wait until tonight when I get home from work, but I'm pretty sure I can find you something.

[Scribbly]

For what it's worth, my parents refused to get me immunized during the panic.

This is largely because they were told that it would only protect up until 13 or so. Mumps isn't terribly dangerous until adolescence, when it can cause sterilization, and it is best to get measles out of the way early too. They would have gotten me the Rubella jab, but the doctor wouldn't give it separately.

The doctor in question also claimed that the reason there seems to be a correlation is that the tests to determine autism are run in rapid succession. If they'd change the time they do the testing, or give the jab, they'd get rid of the correlation.

Obviously, this is all second hand, but that's how my parent's reasoning was explained to me.

[MMIX]

MMR may be linked to autism paper no matter how alarmist and badly researched it was.

Righteo.  Keep on believin'.

WTF!!! My bad, I changed the punctuation to make my meaning clearer. My original observation stands, however; check the data. If you go round making easily disprovable claims [ e.g. kids died because of the MMR scandal] in some way you are walking in lockstep with the prats who believed that kids became autistic because of the MMR vaccine.

[Doktor Howl]

ECHGF has Celiac's, and as a result I have done ALOT of research on the subject. Turns out, if you don't have celiac's or a gluten allergy (the two are similar but not the same) it is mildly detrimental to go on a gluten-free diet. Not that the nature of the diet itself is bad for you, but just going gluten free without making some other adjustments will, in the long term, usually lead to some mild nutrient deficiencies.

Can you post a link for that?  I have a few people that need to STFU about "GLUTEN BAD FOR EVERYONE UNNG", and your post is the best news I've heard all morning.

I swear to God, ECH, these health fad Nazis are the fucking worst.

I'll dig around. I've read so much on the subject at this point that pinpointing a source may take a bit and have to wait until tonight when I get home from work, but I'm pretty sure I can find you something.

Thanks, no hurry.  This sort of ownage is best served in a leisurely fashion, anyway.

[East Coast Hustle]

also, there's now a reliable test for whether or not someone has a gluten allergy. Celiac diagnosis is more difficult. It's usually extrapolated from how symptoms present themselves, though you can always have a camera shoved up your butthole if you want to be 100% sure, as celiacs can be definitively diagnosed based on differences in the intestinal lining. There's probably a genetic test available as well, but I imagine that would be prohibitively expensive for most of us.

[Doktor Howl]

MMR may be linked to autism paper no matter how alarmist and badly researched it was.

Righteo.  Keep on believin'.

WTF!!! My bad, I changed the punctuation to make my meaning clearer. My original observation stands, however; check the data. If you go round making easily disprovable claims [ e.g. kids died because of the MMR scandal] in some way you are walking in lockstep with the prats who believed that kids became autistic because of the MMR vaccine.

I had my facts screwed up...there were 2 deaths in the USA, and the one in the UK was due to indigence, not the MMR screamers.

However, there WAS a spike in cases, as seen here:  http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/134968.php

I'll settle for the bastard getting hit with an attempted murder charge on each additional incident.

[East Coast Hustle]

sorry to threadjack from the original topic, Nigel. Cram's question gave me a rare opportunity to put everything I've learned on a fairly obscure subject to good use and I ran with it.

[Doktor Howl]

also, there's now a reliable test for whether or not someone has a gluten allergy. Celiac diagnosis is more difficult. It's usually extrapolated from how symptoms present themselves, though you can always have a camera shoved up your butthole if you want to be 100% sure, as celiacs can be definitively diagnosed based on differences in the intestinal lining. There's probably a genetic test available as well, but I imagine that would be prohibitively expensive for most of us.

Okay.

Because according to my mother and her hippie friends, the test is "are you a human being"?

[the last yatto]

not only can hormones be added to milk but good things like antibodies can be as well...



it was confirmed that bovine colostrum has effect to weaken allergic reaction
and to strengthen organism protection function, and that it has bactericidal effect on specific bacteria.
http://sciencelinks.jp/j-east/article/200414/000020041404A0468351.php