Science shows that hippies are morons

[Triple Zero]

Is there anyone on PD.com who doesn't know someone with Coeliac's disease?  I was under the impression it was fairly rare, from a friend I know who suffers from it, but it seems like everyone knows someone with it.  Are we sure they're not all the same person?

oooh ooh! I don't! All my friends are differently disordered!

also I'm gonna need a pisco sour recipe please?

[Freeky]

Is there anyone on PD.com who doesn't know someone with Coeliac's disease?  I was under the impression it was fairly rare, from a friend I know who suffers from it, but it seems like everyone knows someone with it.  Are we sure they're not all the same person?

oooh ooh! I don't! All my friends are differently disordered!

Me either! 

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Anti-vax stupidity normally bleeds over into general medical stupidity anyway, so even if there wasn't a vaccination involved, its still entirely possible they did something dumb, like aromatherapy, in order to "cure" the kid.

This.

Also, I drink homemade carrot juice which is, of course, not pasteurized. But I drink it immediately after making it. I've had raw milk; I used to milk the cow it came from. I'd love to have goats for milk. The difference is that these are things I'm handling and storing myself, and are not sitting on a cooler shelf for any length of time for bacteria to multiply in them.

This. Also, another difference is that while a perfectly healthy adult could get away with drinking unpasteurized stuff, children, elderly, and the immunodeficient shouldn't.  

This is a really good point. As a healthy adult, I take risks I would never subject my kids to, including eating a lot of raw meat and fish at home.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

sorry to threadjack from the original topic, Nigel. Cram's question gave me a rare opportunity to put everything I've learned on a fairly obscure subject to good use and I ran with it.

Not a problem! I am interested in research about pretty much every annoying dietary fad, and the reality behind them.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

not only can hormones be added to milk but good things like antibodies can be as well...



it was confirmed that bovine colostrum has effect to weaken allergic reaction
and to strengthen organism protection function, and that it has bactericidal effect on specific bacteria.
http://sciencelinks.jp/j-east/article/200414/000020041404A0468351.php

Good luck finding raw bovine colostrum for sale...

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

MMR may be linked to autism paper no matter how alarmist and badly researched it was.

Righteo.  Keep on believin'.

WTF!!! My bad, I changed the punctuation to make my meaning clearer. My original observation stands, however; check the data. If you go round making easily disprovable claims [ e.g. kids died because of the MMR scandal] in some way you are walking in lockstep with the prats who believed that kids became autistic because of the MMR vaccine.

I had my facts screwed up...there were 2 deaths in the USA, and the one in the UK was due to indigence, not the MMR screamers.

However, there WAS a spike in cases, as seen here:  http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/134968.php

I'll settle for the bastard getting hit with an attempted murder charge on each additional incident.

Or a class action on behalf of kids with damaged sight, or hearing etc, which can be causally linked to the Wakefield case. However, the MMR vaccine has a longer history of causing concern. My kids were not MMR'd back in the late 70's early 80's because of a family history of epilepsy, and we ended up with   . . . . . . . . . . .
a homeopathic alternative - yes I did say homeopathic, no it didn't work. We ended up with the kids all getting mumps AND measles AND rubella.
My late father in law nearly died because of the MMR during an epidemic when his 5 kids were little. They all got MMR's and the doctors said his developing Mumps was a result of being exposed to his kids!!! It developed into Mumps encephalitis and nearly died . . . kind of ironic

That's why its called the 'practice' of medicine...

According to MMIX's post, the medicine part wasn't the problem.  The "homeopathic" part was.

I must have misread that, I thought MMIX said that the Father in Law got sick from kids that had been given the MMR shot.

No, I misread it.

But I think the docs were full of shit on that one.

Back in the day when they used a live virus, it made the kids temporarily contagious to non-immunized adults. It was also a more effective vaccine, but had a higher risk of developing into a (slightly milder) full case of mumps. A much lower risk than is inherent in not being immunized at all, though.

One of the problems with the anti-vaccine crowd is that they often hold off vaccinating until kids are older, which means that they leave their kids unprotected during the time period when mumps, measles, or rubella are most likely to be fatal. I am not especially worried about my six-year-old getting measles, but had she contracted it when she was two it would have likely put her in the hospital

which is, of course, why I had her vaccinated.

There's just no good logic behind the MMR vaccine scare, and a lot of bad logic.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

the report on, i think it was, bbc world news showing an example...
since the skin isnt actually broken, the air presses pass it... no pain

also since they dont break the skin,
they dont have to wory about
giving everyone AIDs from mass injections

You mean,

"They don't have to worry about the massive number of disposable needles going to landfills in order to not give everyone AIDS from mass injections"

Also, there is no such thing as mercury-based vaccinations, to address an earlier post.

[MMIX]

Nigel said

Good luck finding raw bovine colostrum for sale...

Don't forget that luck can be good or bad . . .

http://www.marlerblog.com/2009/09/articles/lawyer-oped/comparing-the-food-safety-record-of-pasteurized-and-raw-milk-products-part-2/

Raw Bovine Colostrum

Colostrum is the "first milk" produced by the mammary gland of an animal after giving birth. Consumption of raw bovine colostrum appears to be increasing in popularity among raw milk drinkers, and has been associated with two recent foodborne disease outbreaks in California (CDC 2008; CDPH 2008). Unlike raw milk, raw bovine colostrum is regulated as a nutritional supplement. A recent survey of dairies in Pennsylvania by Houser et al (2008) found Salmonella in 15% of the colostrum samples; the mean standard plate counts (SPC) and coliforms were very high: 977,539 CFU/ml and 323,372 CFU/ml, respectively (see Oliver et al, 2009, for a broader discussion of sanitation standards). It was not specified in the paper if these dairies surveyed in Pennsylvania sold raw bovine colostrum for human consumption. Additional surveys are needed to study foodborne pathogens and sanitary standards in raw bovine colostrum from dairies that market the product as a nutritional supplement for humans.

also it seems to be horrifically easy to find

[MMIX]

@Nigel - I got measles when I was 5 and apparently I "nearly died" whatever that means. I developed otitis media as a complication and they thought my hearing might be permanently affected. I was lucky and it wasn't - my partner had her eyes affected and she has been left with permanent light sensitivity.

Everyone reacts slightly differently, has a slightly different health status at the point of infection, reacts slightly differently to medication, bedrest etc etc etc. I'm not suggesting that you have to re-invent the wheel for every case but there is an element of "butterfly wing flapping" that applies to all issues relating to a complex organism like a person.

[MMIX]

I wish I was a punkrocker with flowers in my hair . . . yeah, that was my generation

MMIX staring down the barrel at 60 glorious years

[Fredfredly ⊂(◉‿◉)つ]

i went deaf for 2 months when i was 2 because of a reaction to a vaccine, BUT I GOT BETTER!!!!!!

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Nigel said

Good luck finding raw bovine colostrum for sale...

Don't forget that luck can be good or bad . . .

http://www.marlerblog.com/2009/09/articles/lawyer-oped/comparing-the-food-safety-record-of-pasteurized-and-raw-milk-products-part-2/

Raw Bovine Colostrum

Colostrum is the "first milk" produced by the mammary gland of an animal after giving birth. Consumption of raw bovine colostrum appears to be increasing in popularity among raw milk drinkers, and has been associated with two recent foodborne disease outbreaks in California (CDC 2008; CDPH 2008). Unlike raw milk, raw bovine colostrum is regulated as a nutritional supplement. A recent survey of dairies in Pennsylvania by Houser et al (2008) found Salmonella in 15% of the colostrum samples; the mean standard plate counts (SPC) and coliforms were very high: 977,539 CFU/ml and 323,372 CFU/ml, respectively (see Oliver et al, 2009, for a broader discussion of sanitation standards). It was not specified in the paper if these dairies surveyed in Pennsylvania sold raw bovine colostrum for human consumption. Additional surveys are needed to study foodborne pathogens and sanitary standards in raw bovine colostrum from dairies that market the product as a nutritional supplement for humans.

also it seems to be horrifically easy to find

You found fresh raw colostrum for sale in your area? Or are you talking mail-order?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

@Nigel - I got measles when I was 5 and apparently I "nearly died" whatever that means. I developed otitis media as a complication and they thought my hearing might be permanently affected. I was lucky and it wasn't - my partner had her eyes affected and she has been left with permanent light sensitivity.

Everyone reacts slightly differently, has a slightly different health status at the point of infection, reacts slightly differently to medication, bedrest etc etc etc. I'm not suggesting that you have to re-invent the wheel for every case but there is an element of "butterfly wing flapping" that applies to all issues relating to a complex organism like a person.

Yes. Measles is a dangerous disease... lucky you didn't catch it a few years younger or you likely WOULD have died. Some people are more fragile/susceptible than others. One more reason to be grateful for vaccines.

[MMIX]

@Nigel - I got measles when I was 5 and apparently I "nearly died" whatever that means. I developed otitis media as a complication and they thought my hearing might be permanently affected. I was lucky and it wasn't - my partner had her eyes affected and she has been left with permanent light sensitivity.

Everyone reacts slightly differently, has a slightly different health status at the point of infection, reacts slightly differently to medication, bedrest etc etc etc. I'm not suggesting that you have to re-invent the wheel for every case but there is an element of "butterfly wing flapping" that applies to all issues relating to a complex organism like a person.

Yes. Measles is a dangerous disease... lucky you didn't catch it a few years younger or you likely WOULD have died. Some people are more fragile/susceptible than others. One more reason to be grateful for vaccines.

Yeah just because it is a "kids disease" it doesn't mean that it doesn't present a significant risk of long term health deficits or even death . . . . and no, you're right I didn't mean fresh bovine colostrum I was just surprised by the mass of hits I got when I googled. I keep lamb colostrum in store [yeah I know I'm weird] and if I need it I would ask my feed merchant to put me in touch with a local dairy farmer





edit for quote fail
re-edit for utter quote fail

[Iason Ouabache]

Nigel said

Good luck finding raw bovine colostrum for sale...

Don't forget that luck can be good or bad . . .

http://www.marlerblog.com/2009/09/articles/lawyer-oped/comparing-the-food-safety-record-of-pasteurized-and-raw-milk-products-part-2/

Raw Bovine Colostrum

Colostrum is the "first milk" produced by the mammary gland of an animal after giving birth. Consumption of raw bovine colostrum appears to be increasing in popularity among raw milk drinkers, and has been associated with two recent foodborne disease outbreaks in California (CDC 2008; CDPH 2008). Unlike raw milk, raw bovine colostrum is regulated as a nutritional supplement. A recent survey of dairies in Pennsylvania by Houser et al (2008) found Salmonella in 15% of the colostrum samples; the mean standard plate counts (SPC) and coliforms were very high: 977,539 CFU/ml and 323,372 CFU/ml, respectively (see Oliver et al, 2009, for a broader discussion of sanitation standards). It was not specified in the paper if these dairies surveyed in Pennsylvania sold raw bovine colostrum for human consumption. Additional surveys are needed to study foodborne pathogens and sanitary standards in raw bovine colostrum from dairies that market the product as a nutritional supplement for humans.

also it seems to be horrifically easy to find

You found fresh raw colostrum for sale in your area? Or are you talking mail-order?

I've got a friend of a friend who can get you goat colostrum on the sly. How much can I put you down for?



Also, fuck Andrew Wakefield.