Life span.

[Doktor Howl]

Well, to be honest I find that kind of philosophical outlook to be a placebo in many ways, albeit a good spirited one and not at all a bad thing to do. I guess that I understand that there is a myriad potentiality for enjoyment in every particle of reality and there is an element of active joy in enjoying the things you do. However, my point wasn't that it's impossible to enjoy cleaning toilets but that there is an element of ignoring those who clean toilets in living life to the fullest. Fear of death or fear of a meaningless life compels people to strive for better because cleaning toilets as a vocation is not ideal.

It's really more of a placebo for those who don't have to clean toilets as a vocation. Like, If you're a toilet bowl cleaner who doesn't clean toilets with purpose and contentment: your fault.

Not trying to be defiant, just sayin.

I disagree, and you DO have the right to be as defiant as you please.  This isn't communism, after all.

There's no point in being miserable about conducting necessary tasks.  Since Slack™ is the art of enjoying the ride, then you should probably try to enjoy whatever it is you have to do.  Obviously, this isn't always possible...But when it is, you should try it.  There's no point grumbling.  Unless you're me.  And you don't want to be me.

[BADGE OF HONOR]

You're mistaking "living life to the fullest" with "only doing stuff that is enjoyable".  Part of life is cleaning the toilets.

[LMNO]

You're mistaking "living life to the fullest" with "only doing stuff that is enjoyable".  Part of life is cleaning the toilets.

And if you're lucky, they give you a brush.

[Doktor Howl]

You're mistaking "living life to the fullest" with "only doing stuff that is enjoyable".  Part of life is cleaning the toilets.

And if you're lucky, they give you a brush.

In Utah, you have to use your bottom lip.

[h-town]

Well, to be honest I find that kind of philosophical outlook to be a placebo in many ways, albeit a good spirited one and not at all a bad thing to do. I guess that I understand that there is a myriad potentiality for enjoyment in every particle of reality and there is an element of active joy in enjoying the things you do. However, my point wasn't that it's impossible to enjoy cleaning toilets but that there is an element of ignoring those who clean toilets in living life to the fullest. Fear of death or fear of a meaningless life compels people to strive for better because cleaning toilets as a vocation is not ideal.

It's really more of a placebo for those who don't have to clean toilets as a vocation. Like, If you're a toilet bowl cleaner who doesn't clean toilets with purpose and contentment: your fault.

Not trying to be defiant, just sayin.

I disagree, and you DO have the right to be as defiant as you please.  This isn't communism, after all.

There's no point in being miserable about conducting necessary tasks.  Since Slack™ is the art of enjoying the ride, then you should probably try to enjoy whatever it is you have to do.  Obviously, this isn't always possible...But when it is, you should try it.  There's no point grumbling.  Unless you're me.  And you don't want to be me.

I'm not entirely satisfied with how I'm getting my point across and I do blame myself.

No one envisions themselves cleaning toilets when they are living life to the fullest especially in comparison to heiresses, advanced theoretical neurosurgeons, conceptual artists, or even fringe video store clerks if that's their thing, etc. Considering that very few people strive to clean toilets (which, to be honest, in itself suggests creepy mental disorder) then this means people are mostly delegated to clean toilets. There is a base assumption at play where person x is either above cleaning toilets or too busy in some other important capacity to clean the toilet themselves. My point is that there is something to grumble about in being the person who usually cleans the toilets because it's dishonest and academic at best to suggest this position is favourable or as I said above "If you don't know how to enjoy cleaning toilets: your fault." No one wants their kids to be toilet bowl cleaners.

Toilet bowl cleaning is really just an analogy for people who have to do things that other people don't want to do. I was initially trying to be coy instead of insightful.

[LMNO]

I think I get it.  It's not that you're saying, "what about when your toilet bowl gets dirty in your apartment."

You're saying (I think), "The world has a huge amount of terrible jobs that someone has to do.  To tell them to shut up and enjoy it sounds kind of like a placebo that the people who don't have terrible jobs say to make themselves feel better."


Is that about right?

[Cramulus]

I spent the last year living check to check, working a part time job.  I cut corners on car repairs, laundry, and did most of my shopping in the discount section. At first, it really got to me. I felt impotent, like I was missing out on my calling. Every time you turn on the TV you see money money money, and I got none.

Over time, I learned to re-frame my situation. it's not because I'm a failure as a human, it's that practically NOBODY had a job in the year 2009. I began to conceptualize of myself as a Discordian Monk, somebody living a monastic, ascetic lifestyle. By denying myself the pleasures of capitalism, I learned to better appreciate my down time and be comfortable with myself.

It wasn't an easy path, but at least I didn't feel trapped by my life. I learned to embrace my situation and take something valuable from it.

So personally, I think there is something to be said for making the best of what you've got, and embracing it, even if it's a toilet bowl.

[Doktor Howl]

I spent the last year living check to check, working a part time job.  I cut corners on car repairs, laundry, and did most of my shopping in the discount section. At first, it really got to me. I felt impotent, like I was missing out on my calling. Every time you turn on the TV you see money money money, and I got none.

Very few people do.  The TV says they do, by inference, and that is deliberately designed to

1.  Make you spend more than you have, keeping up with the Joneses, and

2.  Make you feel inadequate, so you'll be more inclined to be a productive little drone that doesn't ask for a raise, etc.

[BADGE OF HONOR]

Yeah, the most important thing I got from the concept of the BIP is that it isn't the materials of your existence but what you do with them that makes your life worth living.  If you have your choices limited to what kind of dirt you sleep on, you can either wallow in filth or make sculptures out of mud.

[Doktor Howl]

Yeah, the most important thing I got from the concept of the BIP is that it isn't the materials of your existence but what you do with them that makes your life worth living.  If you have your choices limited to what kind of dirt you sleep on, you can either wallow in filth or make sculptures out of mud.

Or to change your situation, if possible, by SEEING THAT IT'S POSSIBLE.

If God gives you lemons, get a new God.

[BADGE OF HONOR]

Yeah, the most important thing I got from the concept of the BIP is that it isn't the materials of your existence but what you do with them that makes your life worth living.  If you have your choices limited to what kind of dirt you sleep on, you can either wallow in filth or make sculptures out of mud.

Or to change your situation, if possible, by SEEING THAT IT'S POSSIBLE.

If God gives you lemons, get a new God.

Exactly.  And depression is like blinders to the possibility of a better existence.

[h-town]

I think I get it.  It's not that you're saying, "what about when your toilet bowl gets dirty in your apartment."

You're saying (I think), "The world has a huge amount of terrible jobs that someone has to do.  To tell them to shut up and enjoy it sounds kind of like a placebo that the people who don't have terrible jobs say to make themselves feel better."


Is that about right?

Yup, I wasn't being clear that way.

I spent the last year living check to check, working a part time job.  I cut corners on car repairs, laundry, and did most of my shopping in the discount section. At first, it really got to me. I felt impotent, like I was missing out on my calling. Every time you turn on the TV you see money money money, and I got none.

Over time, I learned to re-frame my situation. it's not because I'm a failure as a human, it's that practically NOBODY had a job in the year 2009. I began to conceptualize of myself as a Discordian Monk, somebody living a monastic, ascetic lifestyle. By denying myself the pleasures of capitalism, I learned to better appreciate my down time and be comfortable with myself.

It wasn't an easy path, but at least I didn't feel trapped by my life. I learned to embrace my situation and take something valuable from it.

So personally, I think there is something to be said for making the best of what you've got, and embracing it, even if it's a toilet bowl.

I've been in this position before and worse and it can get depressing if you let it. What I find interesting is that not letting the situation bother you as though it identifies you actually, eventually, elevates you above it and it's like reality rewards you materially with not getting bogged down by circumstance.

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

As a depressed person, I would say it's better to find a reason to gtfo the couch, no matter how "bliss ninny" one might appear, than to find a rationalization for why depression isn't so bad.  I've also found my mood improving since I stopped constantly focusing on the negative and instead emphasizing the positive.  If that makes me a "bliss ninny" then I don't care because it makes me better able to function.  So yeah, I understand the impulse to punch.

As a formerly clinically depressed person, I've found that positivity blinders can be helpful, but primarily if it gives you the strength to look at hideous truths. For me, I had to reconcile some extremely difficult social problems. I'm not going into the details because it's long and complex. But by ruminating on them I eventually found solutions and took actions that vastly improved my life. It took quite a while and I did have professional assistance, but the breakthroughs were worth the months of patiently stewing in blue solitude. I had been subjected to all sorts of pills that did nothing to help me deal with shit and wasted the better part of my time in high school. I don't think most people's depression arises from a simple chemical imbalance, (that may be one factor and/or an effect from your situation) I think usually it arises from living with fucking monkeys who make life difficult, or that YOU are the monkey making your life difficult.

In extreme cases the medication can pull you back to a place where you can deal with your shit, but in most situations I think this medicalization and rejection of "negativity" is bliss ninny horsecrap which is used to buy pharmaceutical salesmen new cars and new age self-help snakes more coke. Here dissidents, take some happy drugs or just stay "positive" so you don't get pissed off/sad/uncomfortable enough to do anything about your personal problem, let alone the institutionalized raping of the globe.

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

Yeah, the most important thing I got from the concept of the BIP is that it isn't the materials of your existence but what you do with them that makes your life worth living.  If you have your choices limited to what kind of dirt you sleep on, you can either wallow in filth or make sculptures out of mud.

Or to change your situation, if possible, by SEEING THAT IT'S POSSIBLE.

If God gives you lemons, get a new God.

Exactly.  And depression is like blinders to the possibility of a better existence.

Bollocks.

Depression may be the jet fuel to get you through bat country.

[BADGE OF HONOR]

Double bollocks, all depression does is sap away all energy.  Sadness, yes.  Anger, yes.  Pain, yes.  But depression is the absence of any emotion, a deadening of the brain, a lifeless gray cell that cuts a person off from life.  Depression is never going to be "jet fuel" because all it does is allow someone to get through the day, one day at a time.  You're full of shit.