So, Jim...When Did We Join The Monkeys?

[Doktor Howl]

Poptard was good for that sort of thing.

I can't remember if he was poptard, but he was A poptard.

[Epimetheus]

Note: This post is windbaggery

This seems to be the solution for a lot of things...Take it, and then run it right to the wall.  If it can't stand the strain, it's not valid.  If the others can't handle the strange bodily fluids you emit, or the strange howlings of the rock n roll you blast while you stress-test their system, then you'll know the truth.

Happened to read this verse in Mitchell's trans. of Tao te Ching today:

When you have names and forms,
know that they are provisional.
When you have institutions,
know where their functions should end.
Knowing when to stop,
you can avoid any danger.

The gist of this verse, which I can easily agree with, both contradicts and supports your thing. On the one hand, it seems to me taking an ideology to the wall could serve simply to make the participant more fanatical more quickly, or else drive 'em insane; and it would be wiser to simply take the ideology only to where it's necessary, and nowhere else.
On the other hand, you seem to be saying that taking it to the wall is exactly how to find out where the idea's "functions should end."
I suppose the resolution could be found in the following: yes, taking it to the wall has dangers of fanaticism and insanity and other shit, if you don't go in with the proper attitude. But if you don't brave the danger, you don't deserve the resulting wisdom. And "danger" is exactly where the fun is to be had most of the time anyway.

Thoughts?

[BadBeast]

The form is not the function, it's the only fixed, known quantity in the equation. The function exists only as a field of possibility until you commit to the form and submit to it's judgement. You have to speculate to accumulate. The stake is your sanity. The Prize, Wisdom. The Wheel spins, do you pass, or play?

[Epimetheus]

The form is not the function, it's the only fixed, known quantity in the equation. The function exists only as a field of possibility until you commit to the form and submit to it's judgement. You have to speculate to accumulate. The stake is your sanity. The Prize, Wisdom. The Wheel spins, do you pass, or play?

Might as well play - this pink blob in my skull's gotta be good for something

[BadBeast]

The form is not the function, it's the only fixed, known quantity in the equation. The function exists only as a field of possibility until you commit to the form and submit to it's judgement. You have to speculate to accumulate. The stake is your sanity. The Prize, Wisdom. The Wheel spins, do you pass, or play?

Might as well play - this pink blob in my skull's gotta be good for something

Round and round, watch it spin, when it stops, that's when you win!
 

[Freeky]

I remember this one, even if I didn't participate. 

And then Chickenfucker.  Oh, man, Chickenfucker was hilarious.

[Ben Shapiro]

Bumping for awesomeness.

[hoopla]

This is the first time I read the OP... It is amazing.  In addition, the conversation that follows is almost as engrossing. I love it.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I'm thinking about things like my motherhood, too, and your work with caddisflies. These are really big, important, defining parts of our lives, but still not encompassing enough to become identities unto themselves. My kids will grow up and move away. You might get a wild hair to go off and become an artist or a mechanic. Letting these things, or how we vote, or religion or lack thereof, become our definitions of self, is in defiance of necessary and positive change. Not that we should be shiftless and flighty and take nothing seriously, but that we should be conscious of being whole, multifaceted people, and shun defining ourselves by our incidentals.

Wow, I totally forgot saying this. I feel like I need it stamped on a calling card.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

This was a really, really valuable OP and conversation, IMO.

[LMNO]

Not sure where, but this needs to emerge from the internets and engage people IRL.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Not sure where, but this needs to emerge from the internets and engage people IRL.

We should build it into an Illuminati program.

[Q. G. Pennyworth]

Actually read this all the way through, totally worth the effort

[Payne]

They help the other 94% of our planetary cohabs get with the fucking program, is what.  Without an ideology to guide them, they'd go the way of the neandertals.

I'm quite sure that's the rationalization.

And it sure helped in 1939.

Oh, point.

So how do you propose we keep ideologies from the masses? 

I don't.  I am uninterested in saving the masses.

That's Payne's job, anyway, and he's dead.

Wait, what?

That's MY job? I thought my job was to die for the fuckers and make them feel slightly bad about offing me - for at least a few weeks.

[Payne]

They help the other 94% of our planetary cohabs get with the fucking program, is what.  Without an ideology to guide them, they'd go the way of the neandertals.

I'm quite sure that's the rationalization.

And it sure helped in 1939.

Oh, point.

So how do you propose we keep ideologies from the masses? 

I don't.  I am uninterested in saving the masses.

That's Payne's job, anyway, and he's dead.

He didn't learn from Curly's fate.  Or Jesus.  Or MLK.  Or Gandhi.  Or Malcolm X.  Or John Dillinger.

The masses don't want to be saved, and they'll kill you if you try.

Oh, that's more like it! A good ol' crucifiction, that's exactly what I was ordered for end, when all the bastards are screaming at me about how it's my duty to help them out.