A question of etiquette.

[Cramulus]

from the Punishment thread...

...I just find it a little weird that behaviors we would normally find reprehensible are totally okay as long as somebody deserves it. Nietzsche suggests this is 'cause deep down, we're hunters, and we don't have an outlet for this violence. We want to be fucking tearing people up, but we have to sublimate these urges in order to participate in society. And Punishment [and consequently, justice] is this gap in the civilized world into which we can channel our animal rage.

I was just trolling this facebook group called "Why experiment on animals when we have plenty of pedophiles?" - basically echoes of the same thing. People have this misanthropic violence coiled up inside them and are waiting for the moment that society gives them the green light to spring it on somebody. Once somebody has done something which merits punishment, the sentence can be carried out without any regard to the culprit's free will, autonomy, accountability, etc. The consequences of this punishment are swept under the rug of justice.

If somebody fucks with you, fuck with them back, I'm all for that.

but some drunks talking shit in a bathroom? Some drunks which didn't have the balls to actually do anything? who cares? you can't let shit like that bring you down or you'll be getting in fights 10 times a week.

[Adios]

I rarely ever get in a fight. The key is to allow them a chance to repent and go away.

[Richter]

I stay out of the meathead bars; they're loud, and the patrons have little to say worth hearing.  If I'm going to pay bar prices, I prefer a place for a quiet drink.

[Doktor Howl]

I stay out of the meathead bars; they're loud, and the patrons have little to say worth hearing.  If I'm going to pay bar prices, I prefer a place for a quiet drink.

This.

Unless there's a band, or I get to play "bar tag".

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

With understanding comes responsibility, and insanity is not gonna save your ass from getting raped in prison.

Also, I'm smelling a load of bluster, if you know what I mean.

Not so much. One of my friends won a national kickboxing championship a few years back. Sitting at the bar one night he asked me what I would do if he came after me. Physically I would stand no chance so I told him I would start shooting at 15 feet and stop when the gun was empty. I think I really did grow up far differently than a lot of you.

Again, more "what I would do if". Bluster.

[Adios]

With understanding comes responsibility, and insanity is not gonna save your ass from getting raped in prison.

Also, I'm smelling a load of bluster, if you know what I mean.

Not so much. One of my friends won a national kickboxing championship a few years back. Sitting at the bar one night he asked me what I would do if he came after me. Physically I would stand no chance so I told him I would start shooting at 15 feet and stop when the gun was empty. I think I really did grow up far differently than a lot of you.

Again, more "what I would do if". Bluster.

ok

[Dimocritus]

Fuck them chuckle-heads. It's not worth the energy. I agree with Cram on this one, for the most part. However, if the comments persisted, or if the situation had escalated to the physical realm, guys like that usually have a glass jaw. Tons of time in the gym might make you big, but it doesn't make you impervious to pain. Guys like that are usually sissies, they go get buff with the hopes that their physical appearance will make people think they're "tough," when in reality, they couldn't take actually getting hit. I deal with this type of (what I like to call) Mosh-Pit Alpha-Male all the time. They all go down easier than the scrawny punk-rawk kids, and harder to boot. Plus, making an example out of one of them keeps the others, at least, at arms length.

[Adios]

I stay out of the meathead bars; they're loud, and the patrons have little to say worth hearing.  If I'm going to pay bar prices, I prefer a place for a quiet drink.

I would rather go to a country bar. I don't go to bars to drink I go to socialize. Drinking is just it's companion.

[Richter]

I stay out of the meathead bars; they're loud, and the patrons have little to say worth hearing.  If I'm going to pay bar prices, I prefer a place for a quiet drink.

I would rather go to a country bar. I don't go to bars to drink I go to socialize. Drinking is just it's companion.

I agree.  Can't socialize when you have to scream to be heard. 

[Nast]

The etiquette response is exactly what you did.

The ettiquette response is, unfortunately, not the gratifying one.

[Salty]

I have refused to go to most of the bars in this town because they're filled with assholes like that. I prefer a quiet drink and good conversation, but my date liked the place and...I'm really sick of avoiding people and places because I feel intimidated before stepping in the door. Safe, quiet, sterility has been the standard for me, and I'd like to get out of that comfort zone.

Now.

Tactics: While I imagine it would have been gratifying to shove the guys' face in a urinal, there's A) the guy next to him and B) his 3-4 friends I saw later to consider. I have no backup ever. And I would have had to leave quickly, possibly not being able to return ever again. This would have definitely upset my date, and there are few places to go in the first place.

Plus, I don't know that in any physical altercation, whether initially having the upper hand or not, how capable I would be.

And even if I succeeded, even if the other guy started it, courts can be tricky. And with custody hearings to consider, the last thing I need is an assault charge.

Escalation: I have a mouth, and it usually runs faster and further than I'd like before I can stop it. I think EoC's method would be the least amount said while salvaging the most of my dignity, however that might not be ALL I would say once I got started. In any case, responding to it at all would certainly increase the odds of violence ensuing. I think that's why I typically say nothing.

What is it though that makes me feel like the lesser monkey? What drives people to go out of their way to be such dicks in the first place? Where can I acquire vast quantities of napalm?

[Doktor Howl]

Tactics: While I imagine it would have been gratifying to shove the guys' face in a urinal, there's A) the guy next to him and B) his 3-4 friends I saw later to consider.

Yeah, I was gonna mention that you better have a plan for his buddy.

[Elder Iptuous]

if you have to get satisfaction out of the situation, when somebody runs their yap, then, for gawdsake, don't try to fight fair, or even straight-forward, for that matter!
keep an eye on them, and strike them safely later on your own terms.  if you do it right, they don't even know what hit them unless you insist on letting them know.

fair fights are for suckers.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

It's not really a matter of etiquette, it's a matter of saving face. The guy wanted to start a pissing contest. Probably the best response for someone like that is, "Sorry, I'm not gay or into golden showers" as you walked out of the bathroom, depriving him of a chance to retort and humiliating him in the eyes of his buddy. He could pursue you out and try to follow up, but at that point he just looks weak and anything he says will make him look weaker. You, on the other hand, have an open door to say things like "Sorry, no offense, I'm just not into that" and "Listen, I'm not the one who offered to pee on YOU" in front of the whole bar. He takes a swing, he gets thrown out, along with his friends, but I doubt he would even take it as far as following you out of the bathroom because pinheads like that are scared to death of looking gay.

[Eater of Clowns]

Alty, yeah definitely don't open up if you're going to run your mouth.  But always have a follow up to a predictable response.  "I would fuckin' mind," (imperitive to drop the g and a few other nuances) opens up immediately to "well what would you do about it?"  That opens you wide up to a humiliation comment like Nigel was getting at "I'd probably feel bad you were wasting the golden shower on me when your buddy here so clearly wants it again."  But that's getting more complicated and doesn't really matter.

What DOES matter is that I believe in another thread you mentioned you got laid that night?  In that case, I think you won the evening.  While some gorilla fucks were too busy focused on urinating, you were securing sex!  Not only is that more awesome just because, it's also a victory on the instinct level because, hey, hypothetically it would be your seed getting passed on.