I love the queers

[Nephew Twiddleton]

And by this i mean heterosexists. Its just a funny image. Never mind pay no attention to the cold guy waiting for the bus.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Oh definitely. Heterosexuals in fact dont get excluded. But it would just be kind of funny to hear them want to be part of the alphabet soup on account of their persecution of the majority complexes.

Oh, yeah, I love that shit.  "I AM NO LONGER ALLOWED TO FUCK PEOPLE OVER.  PITY ME, FOR I AM PERSECUTED."  Seriously.  Not being allowed to fire someone for being Gay is totally just like being shoved into a gas chamber. 



It's like listening to that fucko Bill O'Reilly whimpering about The War on Christmas, because people can't seem to get it into their heads that Jesus was all about mass consumerism and forced conformity.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

So would I, because that would mean the norm has changed enough to include us painlessly. But until "what are your pronouns?" is in general etiquette and no one bats an eye at the sexuality sphere, there's going to be one by necessity.

I think it SHOULD be dropped, and replaced with GET OUT OF MY FACE, MY ORIENTATION IS NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS, accompanied by a swift kick in the ass.

Seriously.  The fact that this sort of thing is even relevant is an indictment on a nation that pretends to be "free".  And Reverend Rick Warren can kiss my straight ass until it develops blisters.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

i know right? Id love an actual war on christmas. I wouldnt have to listen to a shitty genre of music based entirely on a single holiday that stretches from halloween to the fucking epiphany.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

i know right? Id love an actual war on christmas. I wouldnt have to listen to a shitty genre of music based entirely on a single holiday that stretches from halloween to the fucking epiphany.

Christmas music is the best weapon against Christmas.  EVERYONE hates it.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

And by this i mean heterosexists.

Pretty sure we knew what you meant.   

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I actually intend to put out a solo christmas album next winter. Oh yes.

On the 254th day of christmas my true love gave to me....


Hmm. Might have to be a triple album just to fit that idea in.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Actually, now it's LGBTQQIA.

Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, Questioning, Intersex, and Allies.

Requesting an update on the proper terminology.  I can't keep up.

Personally, I try to avoid lumping so many disparate identifiers together.

Someone who is relationship queer doesn't automatically have a lot in common with someone who is gender queer, and both may feel alienated by someone who is gay and monogamous and therefore has achieved a higher level of social acceptance. Someone who is transgender may identify as heterosexual.

People are too fucking complicated to pigeonhole into a string of letters.

In general, I am seeing "Queer and queer friendly" or, simply, "Alternative Lifestyles" being used, and while I find the term "Lifestyle" a little questionable because it just sounds so trivially optional, like my organic composting recycling lifestyle, I also kind of feel like, WTF ever works.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

People are too fucking complicated to pigeonhole into a string of letters.

Yeah, that's sort of where I was going.   

[Juana]

Although there are probably Pride parades that do exclude allies, I don't think there are very many.

I'd think we'd hear baggers crowing over it if that had ever happened.

This is true.

Oh definitely. Heterosexuals in fact dont get excluded. But it would just be kind of funny to hear them want to be part of the alphabet soup on account of their persecution of the majority complexes.

I hadn't thought of that. God. I want to punch those people so much.

Oh definitely. Heterosexuals in fact dont get excluded. But it would just be kind of funny to hear them want to be part of the alphabet soup on account of their persecution of the majority complexes.

Oh, yeah, I love that shit.  "I AM NO LONGER ALLOWED TO FUCK PEOPLE OVER.  PITY ME, FOR I AM PERSECUTED."  Seriously.  Not being allowed to fire someone for being Gay is totally just like being shoved into a gas chamber. 



It's like listening to that fucko Bill O'Reilly whimpering about The War on Christmas, because people can't seem to get it into their heads that Jesus was all about mass consumerism and forced conformity.

Those are the people who need to be slapped repeatedly.

So would I, because that would mean the norm has changed enough to include us painlessly. But until "what are your pronouns?" is in general etiquette and no one bats an eye at the sexuality sphere, there's going to be one by necessity.

I think it SHOULD be dropped, and replaced with GET OUT OF MY FACE, MY ORIENTATION IS NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS, accompanied by a swift kick in the ass.

Seriously.  The fact that this sort of thing is even relevant is an indictment on a nation that pretends to be "free".  And Reverend Rick Warren can kiss my straight ass until it develops blisters.

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree, here. If we can't have a word to describe certain categories of people, we can't explain the social circumstances that create problems for them. We can't protect them from hate crimes and discrimination. (and I think asking about pronouns is enormously important. Some people, like Kai and I, don't care which ones others use for us, but it can be extremely upsetting for other people to be mislabeled because it's an issue of respecting a hugely key part of their identities).

Oh, certainly it is an indictment of the US that this is a fucking issue. But it's going to continue to be an issue unless we actively work to make it not an issue (whether this is just raising one's kids to not give a fuck whether a person is a he, a she, or a zhe, or being a politician who writes equality legislation). To do so, we need to be able to label these people so it can stop being an issue. We can talk about dropping the acronyms when one in twelve trans* women is not a murder victim.

[Juana]

Actually, now it's LGBTQQIA.

Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, Questioning, Intersex, and Allies.

Requesting an update on the proper terminology.  I can't keep up.

Personally, I try to avoid lumping so many disparate identifiers together.

Someone who is relationship queer doesn't automatically have a lot in common with someone who is gender queer, and both may feel alienated by someone who is gay and monogamous and therefore has achieved a higher level of social acceptance. Someone who is transgender may identify as heterosexual.

People are too fucking complicated to pigeonhole into a string of letters.

In general, I am seeing "Queer and queer friendly" or, simply, "Alternative Lifestyles" being used, and while I find the term "Lifestyle" a little questionable because it just sounds so trivially optional, like my organic composting recycling lifestyle, I also kind of feel like, WTF ever works.

Oh, I agree people are too complex to be lumped together in a string of letters because that letter is just a part of who they are, not the whole (and if a person expresses displeasure with that lumpage, I'm certainly going to respect it). But the issues that we/they face are often similar enough that for certain purposes, like legal ones or removing biases in society, I tend to think it's acceptable to lump us all together. But, hmm, I'll think about it some more.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree, here. If we can't have a word to describe certain categories of people, we can't explain the social circumstances that create problems for them.

Nor can they be special, I suppose.  Thing is, I don't think there's a single person in America that doesn't understand the social penalties for being "non-traditional"...Even the people that gleefully inflict those penalties. 

We can't protect them from hate crimes and discrimination.

Sure we can.  I'm not saying we give up the descriptions when appropriate (say, in a criminal investigation), I'm saying the acronym and the rather aggressive self-labelling can go.

(and I think asking about pronouns is enormously important. Some people, like Kai and I, don't care which ones others use for us, but it can be extremely upsetting for other people to be mislabeled because it's an issue of respecting a hugely key part of their identities).

Then that's a problem in their heads, not mine. 

Oh, certainly it is an indictment on the US that this is a fucking issue. But it's going to continue to be an issue unless we actively work to make it not an issue (whether this is just raising one's kids to not give a fuck whether a person is a he, a she, or a zhe, or being a politician who writes equality legislation). To do so, we need to be able to label these people so it can stop being an issue. We can talk about dropping the acronyms when one in twelve trans* women is not a murder victim.

The way you make it not an issue is to A)  Legislate mandated protections, and B)  Make those who get nuts about it look just as marginalized as they are.   The whole country is swinging left right now, momentum can be a hell of a lot more effective than self-imposing a label on yourself that ENFORCES the rather minor differences involved.  Labeling serves only two purposes:  First, to shove people in convenient boxes so that they can be persecuted more effectively, and second, to make the labeled people feel special or in fact persecuted.

Labeling will not stop a single trans person from being murdered.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I checked in at my schools to see what the clubs are called; PCC has a Queer Alliance, and PSU has the Queer Resource Center and Q Club.

I think that it's probably pretty safe/inoffensive to simply use "Queer" or "Non-traditional" to refer to whatever falls outside of the dominant social norm.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I checked in at my schools to see what the clubs are called; PCC has a Queer Alliance, and PSU has the Queer Resource Center and Q Club.

I think that it's probably pretty safe/inoffensive to simply use "Queer" or "Non-traditional" to refer to whatever falls outside of the dominant social norm.

Non-traditional seems like it would be the way to go. 

In what might be seen as a bit of a contradiction (but isn't), I am all about the pride parade, because it desensitizes people to the existence of Gays, etc.  It's easy to hate people you've never seen.  Once they're PEOPLE, it's harder to hate.

Which is one of my three objections to using labels.  They classify and dehumanize.

And I view that as being VERY important, as the father of a non-traditional child in a town full of self-righteous Calvinists.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

There's an event center down on Mississippi that's simply called "Q". Planned Parenthood hosts a lot of fundraising events there, but it's primarily a venue for queer community events.