The Official Unlimited Oil Spill Thread!

[Sir Squid Diddimus]

It's impossible to say exactly how much oil has spilled and how much will have spilled when it's all said and done.
BP officials have been lying and covering it up.

Here's a doo dad though
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2010/05/how-much-oil-has-spilled-in-the-gulf-of-mexico.html

Yeah, in '79 the Ixtoc thing spilled and they're trying the exact same tactics they did then, today. Rachel Maddow had a segment on her show where she juxtaposed the news reels from back then with what they're doing now.
Only that one was in 200ft of water. This is a mile deep.

Also what Vex said about Obama. A friend of mine tried pinning it on him and it was utterly ridiculous.

[Cramulus]

it's disgusting how right wingers are kind of hoping that this will become "Obama's Katrina". I guess a fucking disgusting gulf of mexico will be a great political victory for them.

[Abbess Jade]

Before school had ended, my Biology teacher showed us this: Cleaning up oil with hay.

I thought it was interesting. At least someone's coming up with ideas.

[Suu]

it's disgusting how right wingers are kind of hoping that this will become "Obama's Katrina". I guess a fucking disgusting gulf of mexico will be a great political victory for them.

Well, what can he do? Really?! Vex was right.

Also, he told BP "Clean this shit up". They went, "Okay!" and decided to sit with their thumbs up their asses instead and complain about how it was effecting THEIR lives and THEIR business while they tried faulty solutions and chemicals that were illegal in the UK because they "were able to get them immediately".

BP leased the platform from Transocean (which is a Swiss company, not American), yes, but they also own more than half of the Atlantis oil field that's in the Gulf which is in INTERNATIONAL WATERS. It's legally their mess and not the United States, even though it's effecting our coastline. They technically don't even have to listen to us. Where is the UK in this? It's their fucking corporation, they need to step in and do something about it.

[Sir Squid Diddimus]

Obama's Katrina. That kills me every time I see it.

For these goons to compare a man-made, preventable and fixable disaster to a predicted, time to get out, get them the hell out, we have the resources to get them out but won't, natural one is fucking retarded.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Obama's Katrina. That kills me every time I see it.

For these goons to compare a man-made, preventable and fixable disaster to a predicted, time to get out, get them the hell out, we have the resources to get them out but won't, natural one is fucking retarded.

Optimised for redundancy

[AFK]

I'm certainly not onboard with the right-wingers trying to pin the blame of this thing on Obama.  Where I am coming from is that, until recently, his administration has seemed to be not as engaged in this process as they could be.  There certainly has proven to be a lack of proper oversight on the MMS agency.  The very fact Obama didn't know someone was getting fired/let-go at MMS raises that concern.  

What I'd like to see, what a lot of experts are calling for, is for Obama to use the bully pulpit that is the Presidency of the U.S., marshall a huge fleet of tankers, and start skimming.  No, it doesn't stop the leak, but it mitigates the damage.  The perception has been, rightly or wrongly, that Obama is investing the fate of this spill on whether or not BP can fix it.  Surely, there are other great minds out there that can be put to work on this.  Surely there are other technologies that can be wielded.  And perhaps he is doing this.  If so, he needs to do a better job of communicating it.

And that has been the other problem.  Communication has been rough at best.  Obama, Salazar, and the EPA should be speaking in unison.  But, there have been instances that have shown that isn't the case.  

Look, I'm not about to put his response in the same category of Bush's response to Katrina.  I'm just saying, at least initially, it was more anemic than the situation, IMO, called for.  And I believe that is mostly due to the Obama administration giving far more deference to BP than it deserved.  

[P3nT4gR4m]

BP tells Obama what's what. Not vice-vesa. Granted tho they should have ordered him to bullshit the american public into thinking everything was cool. Someone at BP dept of governance dropped the ball here.

[Cramulus]

  I love you p3nt

[Requia ☣]

They already are skimming.  BP payed a bunch of out of work fisherman to do it.

They neglected to get the fishermen safety equipment to deal with the fumes of course.

[AFK]

I'm not talking about fishing boats, I'm talking about getting a fleet of tankers out there to do this on a massive scale.  This is a huge, one of a kind, problem that calls for a huge one of a kind response. 

[Richter]

it's disgusting how right wingers are kind of hoping that this will become "Obama's Katrina". I guess a fucking disgusting gulf of mexico will be a great political victory for them.

Iffy move.  It's already becoem fashionable to criticize the government, encouraging it is only setting themselves up for more of the same.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

I'm certainly not onboard with the right-wingers trying to pin the blame of this thing on Obama.  Where I am coming from is that, until recently, his administration has seemed to be not as engaged in this process as they could be.  There certainly has proven to be a lack of proper oversight on the MMS agency.  The very fact Obama didn't know someone was getting fired/let-go at MMS raises that concern. 

What I'd like to see, what a lot of experts are calling for, is for Obama to use the bully pulpit that is the Presidency of the U.S., marshall a huge fleet of tankers, and start skimming.  No, it doesn't stop the leak, but it mitigates the damage.  The perception has been, rightly or wrongly, that Obama is investing the fate of this spill on whether or not BP can fix it.  Surely, there are other great minds out there that can be put to work on this.  Surely there are other technologies that can be wielded.  And perhaps he is doing this.  If so, he needs to do a better job of communicating it.

And that has been the other problem.  Communication has been rough at best.  Obama, Salazar, and the EPA should be speaking in unison.  But, there have been instances that have shown that isn't the case. 

Look, I'm not about to put his response in the same category of Bush's response to Katrina.  I'm just saying, at least initially, it was more anemic than the situation, IMO, called for.  And I believe that is mostly due to the Obama administration giving far more deference to BP than it deserved. 

Everyone has their ideas about what would work, or work better, or look better. The Governor of Louisiana has a theory about massive sandbars, for example, and he's pissed as hell that the Feds haven't given the green light to go forward. The fact, however, is that there are a lot of things to consider in a crisis like this. Yes, it's embarrassing for Obama because it looks like he was caught with his pants down. But anyone's pants would have been down. It's obvious everybody in the government is scrambling, first to cover their asses and then to actually come up with a workable solution in time for election season, Obama included. I'm not saying 'trust the government, they're here to help.' I'm saying the government is doing what it can with the resources it has.

People hate to see the government be unable to deal with something. It's uncomfortable, not only because there is real damage happening to real ecosystems and economies, but also because it breaches our happily clung-to delusion that the government is as all-powerful as it pretends to be. It isn't true. The government is just a bunch of humans, strained almost to the point of breaking by enormous cultural and political forces, making shit up as they go along. We hate to be reminded of that because it removes the imaginary protective shield that helps us feel safe from the realities of living on this planet, but just because we hate to hear it doesn't mean it's any less true.

Shit happens, and sometimes an adequate response to the shit that happens isn't possible, isn't feasible, or isn't worth it. I don't even blame Bush completely for the debacle that was Katrina. Running a country the size of the US is, I'd imagine, incredibly fucking difficult, even if you're just in it for the book deals you get when you're done. Every head of state does something wrong, every agency is full of boneheads, and every legislature is more concerned with keeping their jobs than with doing them. But that's human nature.

<sorry didn't mean to rant on and on like that>

[AFK]

Well dammit, I want it to be like ID4, where the president gets on the CB and everyone who knows how to drive a boat comes and kills the aliens, I mean, plugs the hole!!!
  /

[Triple Zero]

I'm not talking about fishing boats, I'm talking about getting a fleet of tankers out there to do this on a massive scale.  This is a huge, one of a kind, problem that calls for a huge one of a kind response. 

That would be right.

Where IS your navy, anyway?

Big emergency disaster on the sea, that's their turf, right?

I mean, over here if our dikes would break or something would flood at the coast our navy would be all over it [it's one of the things I consider them most useful for]. Similar in Austria, where the army (or airforce, I forget) is mostly occupying themselves with saving people that get lost in the mountains or avalanches.

Everyone has their ideas about what would work, or work better, or look better. The Governor of Louisiana has a theory about massive sandbars, for example, and he's pissed as hell that the Feds haven't given the green light to go forward. The fact, however, is that there are a lot of things to consider in a crisis like this. Yes, it's embarrassing for Obama because it looks like he was caught with his pants down. But anyone's pants would have been down. It's obvious everybody in the government is scrambling, first to cover their asses and then to actually come up with a workable solution in time for election season, Obama included. I'm not saying 'trust the government, they're here to help.' I'm saying the government is doing what it can with the resources it has.

that's a somewhat contradictory. if they didn't cover their asses first and work "election season" into the equation, they could do MORE.

so no, your government is not doing all they can. they should put their country FIRST and then their jobs. of course you're used to the fact that they never do this, but that doesn't mean you have to swallow it.

this is an ecological disaster of epic proportions, it's the sort of stuff you DO put your job on the line over, because it matters and it is bigger than your career.

People hate to see the government be unable to deal with something. It's uncomfortable, not only because there is real damage happening to real ecosystems and economies, but also because it breaches our happily clung-to delusion that the government is as all-powerful as it pretends to be. It isn't true. The government is just a bunch of humans, strained almost to the point of breaking by enormous cultural and political forces, making shit up as they go along. We hate to be reminded of that because it removes the imaginary protective shield that helps us feel safe from the realities of living on this planet, but just because we hate to hear it doesn't mean it's any less true.

Well, yes, they're only human.

Additionally, they seem unable to deal with big disasters. Not "doing all they can but failing", but unable and impotent.

Where are the emergency scenarios? Why are they even talking about what should be done?

Shit happens, and sometimes an adequate response to the shit that happens isn't possible, isn't feasible, or isn't worth it. I don't even blame Bush completely for the debacle that was Katrina. Running a country the size of the US is, I'd imagine, incredibly fucking difficult, even if you're just in it for the book deals you get when you're done. Every head of state does something wrong, every agency is full of boneheads, and every legislature is more concerned with keeping their jobs than with doing them. But that's human nature.

I still think that a government should be able to at least TRY and deal with disasters like these.