Best of times/Worst of times.

[Kai]

I'm at a conference now, in Santa Fe New Mexico. I'm not going to say what conference, but if you're google savvy you could probably figure it out. Has something to do with water.

Sunday evening, three speakers gave talks. Two were the presidents of the societies present, and one was the Mayor of Santa Fe. The first two weren't much to mention, lots of talk about the challenges ahead, but a quote from Tale of the Two Cities was appropriate. The mayor, on the other hand, was something else.

How often does a biologist, a natural resources trained professional, become mayor of a city? He goes way back with conservation, worked for the EPA, has a degree in something other than political science or business. Under his guiding hand the city conserves 2000 acres of water a year more than they did in 2000, the city is working to restore the Santa Fe river to a ecologically stable and diverse system. They put aside 1000 water acres every year for river flow alone, not to use, but just to let it be.

This is on top of a city known for it's arts and cultural diversity, that more and more every year reaches out to the local pueblos for collaboration, that is now commemorating not celebrating it's 400th aniversary, commemorating because the people who were here before didn't know if they could celebrate such a thing with what happened after.

This morning, a high ranking scientist from USGS came and spoke to us about the Deepwater Horizon. He said it nicer, but in summary, we're fucked and all we can do is keep close track of the before and after and shove it down the throats of BP when it comes time. He barely mentioned the impact of hurricanes, but I know, oh how I know, it was out of fear than anything else. Every day he gets up and looks at the current map. 18000 plus barrels a day. Jesus. And day by day the population levels rise and our fresh water supply grows scarcer. We don't have 5.6 earths, we don't even have ONE earth, we've fucked it in the ass without lube too many times and it's staring vacant now. Too much ecosystem rape, not just one boning from a stranger like a meteor, but a continued incestuous fuckfest by it's own ungrateful offspring. And Santa Fe just isn't enough, as much as they try.


We have nothing before us, we have everything before us. But it feels, to me, more like the season of darkness than the spring of hope.

[Freeky]

I feel it too, Kai. This was a great rant.

[Adios]

In nature if the rabbit population explodes so does the coyote population.

Is the human race exempt from this law? Like it or not we are a part of the ecology of this planet and subject to it's whims and laws.

Kai I would like to hear your thoughts on this please.

[Rumckle]

The main difference is that we don't have any natural predators.

[LMNO]

I always though the natural predator of humans were, well, other humans.

[Adios]

Predators can equal disease, natural disasters, wars, etc, no?

[memy]

There are consequences to human life that are not always immediately obvious.

There is only so much energy and matter in the world. The more humans take up that mass, the less mass other things can take. Considering the fact that farm animals have a population that increases with human population, how much room is left for others? How much water? How much do we even give back, when our bodies are either buried in airtight containers or burned to an unusable crisp? Or when our nutrient-rich feces is mixed into the sewage of toxic urine? Does the earth make fertile soil from our waste? If anything we recycle only for ourselves and the animals we directly care for, and that's sad.

Also, dammit I hate corn now, and soy. Corn is my ancestors crop, but now it's getting buttfucked into syrup for just about everything and pimped out in bogus "as natural and nutritious as sugar!" commercials. But that's for another rant.

[Rumckle]

I always though the natural predator of humans were, well, other humans.

Predators can equal disease, natural disasters, wars, etc, no?

Well yes, in a sense, but in the coyote-rabbit case, the coyotes benefit because they eat the rabbits, nothing really eats humans (at least not regularly). I guess it is possible, but it would be rather more complicated.

Also, dammit I hate corn now, and soy. Corn is my ancestors crop, but now it's getting buttfucked into syrup for just about everything and pimped out in bogus "as natural and nutritious as sugar!" commercials. But that's for another rant.

Also corn syrup doesn't taste as good as sugar.

[Kai]

In nature if the rabbit population explodes so does the coyote population.

Is the human race exempt from this law? Like it or not we are a part of the ecology of this planet and subject to it's whims and laws.

Kai I would like to hear your thoughts on this please.

We're top omnivore tool makers, meaning we'll eat almost anything and we remake our environment in our image; this sort of generalist organism can spread to all corners of the earth, exploiting every habitat and changing it where they can't. Eventually we'll reach a carrying capacity, but by that point our water and space will be exhausted. Not a pretty picture.

[Adios]

Humans kill each other for fun, it's just disguised as just causes.

[Adios]

In nature if the rabbit population explodes so does the coyote population.

Is the human race exempt from this law? Like it or not we are a part of the ecology of this planet and subject to it's whims and laws.

Kai I would like to hear your thoughts on this please.

We're top omnivore tool makers, meaning we'll eat almost anything and we remake our environment in our image; this sort of generalist organism can spread to all corners of the earth, exploiting every habitat and changing it where they can't. Eventually we'll reach a carrying capacity, but by that point our water and space will be exhausted. Not a pretty picture.

And if this happens this will be our natural predator eliminating by starvation and disease enough humans for the Earth to save itself. Everything has a natural survival instinct and the Earth is no exception.

[P3nT4gR4m]

I never had much truck with the Gaia Principle. The thing with humans is we make ourselves increasingly immune to nature. That suits me I always figured nature needed improved on anyway. The whole system happened by accident unless you believe god did it. I'm pretty sure with a bit of intelligence behind it we'll get on much better. Problem is that intelligence is pretty thin on the ground and we're using up all the resources in a pretty fucking shortsighted fashion right now. It'll sort itself out one way or another. Either lots (maybe all) of us will die or we'll get our shit together but it aint nature that's going to dictate that; it's a bunch of barely sentient talking monkeys

[Kai]

In nature if the rabbit population explodes so does the coyote population.

Is the human race exempt from this law? Like it or not we are a part of the ecology of this planet and subject to it's whims and laws.

Kai I would like to hear your thoughts on this please.

We're top omnivore tool makers, meaning we'll eat almost anything and we remake our environment in our image; this sort of generalist organism can spread to all corners of the earth, exploiting every habitat and changing it where they can't. Eventually we'll reach a carrying capacity, but by that point our water and space will be exhausted. Not a pretty picture.

And if this happens this will be our natural predator eliminating by starvation and disease enough humans for the Earth to save itself. Everything has a natural survival instinct and the Earth is no exception.

Nahh, more like, ecology and biology is a continuum, but individual species and lineages are transient. When humans destroy themselves, ecology and biology will lead to something else, new lineages, new species. Emergence drags on through time. This is just a blip in the radar.

But I'm also a human and one that has strong biophilia, a cathexis for living things and communities of life. So of course I feel great pain for these happenings, both from a humanist standpoint (caring about the future of humans), and a naturalist standpoint (caring about the current life on this planet).

And humans won't be able to enjoy this planet if we don't exist, if we screw ourselves over in the process of learning our place in the whole and fail to sustain ourselves as a lineage.

[nerinamakani]

Perhaps we are fated (and by fated I mean subtle patterns indicating outcome..) to die off and we know it. "end of the "world"" etc..

In my world view predicting the future isn't all that amazing..

My money is on disease doing the dirty work.

[Fyxen]

Perhaps we are fated (and by fated I mean subtle patterns indicating outcome..) to die off and we know it. "end of the "world"" etc..

In my world view predicting the future isn't all that amazing..

My money is on disease doing the dirty work.

i can see disease being our predator