Holder vs Humanitarian law and Arar vs Ashcroft both pass in Govt favour

[Doktor Howl]

Zyz is starting to catch on...

Well, I /did/ sip the RAW kool-aid enough to paraphrase what he said in book two of Illuminatus!: "No matter who is running the machine, it will always turn out the exact same product." Essentially, we can have a million Mother Theresas running the US Federal government and the structure will produce the same damn thing as if it were run by a million Hermann Goerings.

My deceased grandfather was right. "The state has become more fascist (in 2006) than I've ever seen in my life (of 77 years)."

Well, we must like it, right?  I mean, if we didn't, we wouldn't pay for it.

[Zyzyx]

Zyz is starting to catch on...

Well, I /did/ sip the RAW kool-aid enough to paraphrase what he said in book two of Illuminatus!: "No matter who is running the machine, it will always turn out the exact same product." Essentially, we can have a million Mother Theresas running the US Federal government and the structure will produce the same damn thing as if it were run by a million Hermann Goerings.

My deceased grandfather was right. "The state has become more fascist (in 2006) than I've ever seen in my life (of 77 years)."

Well, we must like it, right?  I mean, if we didn't, we wouldn't pay for it.

It's that feeling of entrapment, of knowing without doubt that the promise of liberty is a lie. Freedom is not free, we have to work to maintain freedom but honest labor for one's own self interest no longer exists. Why can't I be a dirt farmer in Appalachia without being inbred (and thus incapable of seriously harming the government due to genetic irregularity) or being put on a government watch-list for daring to fend purely for myself? Becoming aware of the limitations just makes me champ at the bit even more fiercely.

[Cain]

Some light reading for you Zyzyx:

http://antifascist-calling.blogspot.com/ (read as far back as the archives go)
http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/ (ditto)

[Doktor Howl]

It's that feeling of entrapment, of knowing without doubt that the promise of liberty is a lie. Freedom is not free, we have to work to maintain freedom but honest labor for one's own self interest no longer exists. Why can't I be a dirt farmer in Appalachia without being inbred (and thus incapable of seriously harming the government due to genetic irregularity) or being put on a government watch-list for daring to fend purely for myself? Becoming aware of the limitations just makes me champ at the bit even more fiercely.

Balls.  I'm free.  Or kill me.

And I didn't have to build a big vault to get that way.

[LMNO]

It's that feeling of entrapment, of knowing without doubt that the promise of liberty is a lie. Freedom is not free, we have to work to maintain freedom but honest labor for one's own self interest no longer exists. Why can't I be a dirt farmer in Appalachia without being inbred (and thus incapable of seriously harming the government due to genetic irregularity) or being put on a government watch-list for daring to fend purely for myself? Becoming aware of the limitations just makes me champ at the bit even more fiercely.

Balls.  I'm free.  Or kill me.

And I didn't have to build a big vault to get that way.

Just needed two fingers, one on each hand, held upright.

[Zyzyx]

I realize the whole "mountain vault" thing is a pipe dream, a fantasy. Hard to convey sarcasm over text.

[Doktor Howl]

It's that feeling of entrapment, of knowing without doubt that the promise of liberty is a lie. Freedom is not free, we have to work to maintain freedom but honest labor for one's own self interest no longer exists. Why can't I be a dirt farmer in Appalachia without being inbred (and thus incapable of seriously harming the government due to genetic irregularity) or being put on a government watch-list for daring to fend purely for myself? Becoming aware of the limitations just makes me champ at the bit even more fiercely.

Balls.  I'm free.  Or kill me.

And I didn't have to build a big vault to get that way.

Just needed two fingers, on on each hand, held upright.

THIS.

Patrick Henry didn't cower in a hole.  He spat in the hangman's eye, and snapped the buckles of his shoes off in the asses of pansy Tories.

[Doktor Howl]

I realize the whole "mountain vault" thing is a pipe dream, a fantasy. Hard to convey sarcasm over text.

Yeah, well, you can build a vault in your head, too.  Most people do, as a matter of fact.

[Zyzyx]

Ultimately what I'm trying to say is that attempting to look the truth in the eye sucks as it's not comfortable and nice, but it's something I feel I have to do anyway.

Currently on April '08 in that antifascist-calling blog. Riveting, blood-boiling stuff.

[Doktor Howl]

Ultimately what I'm trying to say is that attempting to look the truth in the eye sucks as it's not comfortable and nice, but it's something I feel I have to do anyway.

Strange, because it seemed that you were actually trying to at least metaphorically burrow under the ground.

Now that I can see that's not the case, welcome to being a Doktor.  Truth is ugly, horrible, never noble, and usually covered in gore and bits.  But it's the only thing worth having.

[Zyzyx]

Ultimately what I'm trying to say is that attempting to look the truth in the eye sucks as it's not comfortable and nice, but it's something I feel I have to do anyway.

Strange, because it seemed that you were actually trying to at least metaphorically burrow under the ground.

Now that I can see that's not the case, welcome to being a Doktor.  Truth is ugly, horrible, never noble, and usually covered in gore and bits.  But it's the only thing worth having.

Yeah, the idea behind all that was more like, "Wouldn't it be nice if we could all just get on with our lives? And that there wouldn't be giant plutocratic cocks raining down on us from all sides?" Sadly there are, and I'd be damned if I chose to ignore it. I at least want to know what kind of monster I'm feeding when I go to work and buy wine every day.

[Doktor Howl]

Ultimately what I'm trying to say is that attempting to look the truth in the eye sucks as it's not comfortable and nice, but it's something I feel I have to do anyway.

Strange, because it seemed that you were actually trying to at least metaphorically burrow under the ground.

Now that I can see that's not the case, welcome to being a Doktor.  Truth is ugly, horrible, never noble, and usually covered in gore and bits.  But it's the only thing worth having.

Yeah, the idea behind all that was more like, "Wouldn't it be nice if we could all just get on with our lives? And that there wouldn't be giant plutocratic cocks raining down on us from all sides?" Sadly there are, and I'd be damned if I chose to ignore it. I at least want to know what kind of monster I'm feeding when I go to work and buy wine every day.

Plutocrats?  What plutocrats?  All I see are alphas.  The ones we hired.

[Zyzyx]

Okay, tell me if I got this straight. The Ruby Ridge incident is proof that if you try to duck out and cut loose from the federal government it will hunt you down and kill you. This must be what you mean when you say that one must work within the constraints of society and the "system" if any headway is to be made - many people doing a few things at once.

Amidoinitrite?

[LMNO]

Not speaking for the Dok, I consider it more of, "if you get noticed trying to duck out and cut loose from the federal government it will hunt you down and kill you."

[Doktor Howl]

Okay, tell me if I got this straight. The Ruby Ridge incident is proof that if you try to duck out and cut loose from the federal government it will hunt you down and kill you. This must be what you mean when you say that one must work within the constraints of society and the "system" if any headway is to be made - many people doing a few things at once.

Amidoinitrite?

1.  What LMNO said.

2.  Blend in.  Don't "work within the system", make it look like you're working within the system.  When the police want to know who just did that awful thing, are they going to look at someone who looks respectable, or the guy with the purple hair and cranium piercings?  Use their own memes against them.  "I am shocked and outraged at what just happened, and I am dressed as an alpha member of this system and thus have a stake in it.  Someone should DO something about these hooligans".