Prop 8 Watch. Grab your popcorn, kids!

[Iason Ouabache]

I'll just leave this here:

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/right-wing-reactions-prop-8-decision

[Thurnez Isa]

"Marriage is not a political toy. It is too important to treat as a means for already powerful people to gain preferred status or acceptance."

If you consider what marriage actually was historically, that is fucking hilarious

[BabylonHoruv]

"Marriage is not a political toy. It is too important to treat as a means for already powerful people to gain preferred status or acceptance."

If you consider what marriage actually was historically, that is fucking hilarious

hehe, that made me laugh.

[Doktor Howl]

I'll just leave this here:

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/right-wing-reactions-prop-8-decision

"Undergrids" is a word?   

[DiscoUkulele]

Today's Complicated Semi-Victory

All the gay blogs are excited, kind of, about today's ruling by Judge Walker. He was ruling on the Prop 8 Proponents' Motion to Stay. This Motion to Stay was essentially asking Judge Walker to NOT allow same-sex marriages until they've had the chance to appeal. They wrote a request for a stay, and the Governor and AG (the actual defendants in the case) and the plaintiffs (NO on Prop 8 ) wrote requests that a stay not be granted, meaning that marriages should begin immediately.

Judge Walker ruled that the Motion to Stay should NOT be granted, BUT marriage licenses should not be distributed unless the next court (the 9th Circuit Court) doesn't act by next Wednesday (8/18) at 5 p.m. This gives the proponents time to appeal.

When they appeal to the 9th Circuit Court, the Court will decide if A) The Motion to Stay should be granted (ie marriages no allowed until the entire appeals process is completed) and B) If they want to hear the appeal.

If they refuse on both, marriages will take place.

If they refuse on both, then Proponents will ask the Supreme Court for those same two things. A Motion to Stay and a chance to appeal.

Essentially, in the next few days we will find out if couples may marry NOW, or if they will have to wait several years for the appeals process to finish (and then potentially lose the right to marry if a higher court rules against Judge Walker).

HOWEVER... There is some question that the appeals court will not want to hear an appeal because the Proponents of Prop 8 a were not the official defendants in the trial. They may not have the standing to appeal.

Further, they must prove to the appeals court that NOT issuing a Stay somehow negatively affects the Defendants (who actually against a Stay).

Very complicated and confusing. The next few days will be intense.

[Disco Pickle]

I've read this entire thread and I have something to say:


lol. 

I've never understood social conservatives except in the realm of wanting to educate their children to avoid people who have a drug problem and maybe hope to keep them from getting hpv..  (or at least pass the responsibility of educating them about these dangers on to the state)  not to confuse that concern with a well controlled and moderated enjoyment of drugs, but a drug PROBLEM.. 

if I was being honest, and I try to be, I say faggots marrying is the best thing that could happen to the planet. 

They can (potentially) adopt children out of the ever tragic orphanage system..   

They are DINK's unless they adopt and provide an excellent model of how to arrive at an alternate income through asset management.  not all, of course, because absolutes are never correct.   (lol)

they cannot reproduce (normally... yes I know there are artificial ways) and do not contribute to the predictable over population of the planet.

"the fall of mankind will be it's inability to understand the exponential factor."  -- some math guy, who's lectures I like, but can't be bothered to search for because I'm going to do my best to find my way to my bed after I click 'post'

[Iason Ouabache]

Today's Complicated Semi-Victory

All the gay blogs are excited, kind of, about today's ruling by Judge Walker. He was ruling on the Prop 8 Proponents' Motion to Stay. This Motion to Stay was essentially asking Judge Walker to NOT allow same-sex marriages until they've had the chance to appeal. They wrote a request for a stay, and the Governor and AG (the actual defendants in the case) and the plaintiffs (NO on Prop 8 ) wrote requests that a stay not be granted, meaning that marriages should begin immediately.

Judge Walker ruled that the Motion to Stay should NOT be granted, BUT marriage licenses should not be distributed unless the next court (the 9th Circuit Court) doesn't act by next Wednesday (8/18) at 5 p.m. This gives the proponents time to appeal.

When they appeal to the 9th Circuit Court, the Court will decide if A) The Motion to Stay should be granted (ie marriages no allowed until the entire appeals process is completed) and B) If they want to hear the appeal.

If they refuse on both, marriages will take place.

If they refuse on both, then Proponents will ask the Supreme Court for those same two things. A Motion to Stay and a chance to appeal.

Essentially, in the next few days we will find out if couples may marry NOW, or if they will have to wait several years for the appeals process to finish (and then potentially lose the right to marry if a higher court rules against Judge Walker).

HOWEVER... There is some question that the appeals court will not want to hear an appeal because the Proponents of Prop 8 a were not the official defendants in the trial. They may not have the standing to appeal.

Further, they must prove to the appeals court that NOT issuing a Stay somehow negatively affects the Defendants (who actually against a Stay).

Very complicated and confusing. The next few days will be intense.

There's also rumors floating around that the defendants don't want to push this all the way to the Supreme Court because it wouldn't just invalidate Prop 8, it will invalidate the anti-gay marriage amendments that 30 other states passed. They might just cut their losses and sacrifice California in order to save the other states.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Today's Complicated Semi-Victory

All the gay blogs are excited, kind of, about today's ruling by Judge Walker. He was ruling on the Prop 8 Proponents' Motion to Stay. This Motion to Stay was essentially asking Judge Walker to NOT allow same-sex marriages until they've had the chance to appeal. They wrote a request for a stay, and the Governor and AG (the actual defendants in the case) and the plaintiffs (NO on Prop 8 ) wrote requests that a stay not be granted, meaning that marriages should begin immediately.

Judge Walker ruled that the Motion to Stay should NOT be granted, BUT marriage licenses should not be distributed unless the next court (the 9th Circuit Court) doesn't act by next Wednesday (8/18) at 5 p.m. This gives the proponents time to appeal.

When they appeal to the 9th Circuit Court, the Court will decide if A) The Motion to Stay should be granted (ie marriages no allowed until the entire appeals process is completed) and B) If they want to hear the appeal.

If they refuse on both, marriages will take place.

If they refuse on both, then Proponents will ask the Supreme Court for those same two things. A Motion to Stay and a chance to appeal.

Essentially, in the next few days we will find out if couples may marry NOW, or if they will have to wait several years for the appeals process to finish (and then potentially lose the right to marry if a higher court rules against Judge Walker).

HOWEVER... There is some question that the appeals court will not want to hear an appeal because the Proponents of Prop 8 a were not the official defendants in the trial. They may not have the standing to appeal.

Further, they must prove to the appeals court that NOT issuing a Stay somehow negatively affects the Defendants (who actually against a Stay).

Very complicated and confusing. The next few days will be intense.

There's also rumors floating around that the defendants don't want to push this all the way to the Supreme Court because it wouldn't just invalidate Prop 8, it will invalidate the anti-gay marriage amendments that 30 other states passed. They might just cut their losses and sacrifice California in order to save the other states.

Too bad for that... but we'll see.

[Triple Zero]

It's already split, CB. There never was an "LGBT community", rather, the fags and lesbos hate on the bisexuals and queers, and everyone hates on the trannies. It's the southern white sharecropper's racism, taken to a different issue. Really fucking sad.

Yeah, I think the "LGBT community" is more of a convention for the advocacy and social service organizations that try to serve those people.  I'm just basing this upon my experiences partnering with those groups on substance abuse prevention efforts.  And now, depending on the group you are working with, it's now called the LGBTQQIA Community

Yeah, that's basically it. Been stamped on because you're gay? Well, at least you're not a tranny! But it suits your interest to /pretend/ like everyone is included for the advocacy groups.

By "tranny" do you mean transsexual or travestite? Cause Urban Dictionary says it can mean both. But sometimes travestites are gay guys dressing up as female cause they feel like it, not because they want to be a woman. Are they stepped on by the rest of the LGBTPH'NGLUI MGLW'NAFH IA IA FHTAGHN community too? [cause afaik here they mostly aren't, although I'm not too familiar with those subcultures myself]

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

BAAW! WE CAIN'T PREEDICT THE FYOOTCHER!!

It's the best of the arguments that the National Review can scrape off the floor of Walker's courtroom. Of everything that they could write an article about, they thought this was the strongest point:

Walker:  "I'm asking you to tell me how it [same-sex marriage] would harm opposite-sex marriages."...

Cooper:  "Your Honor, my answer is:  I don't know.  I don't know.

[More back and forth]

Cooper:  "Well,  your Honor, by—by saying that the state and its electorate are entitled, when dealing with radical proposals for change to a bedrock institution such as this, to move with incrementally, to move with caution, and to adopt a wait-and-see attitude.  Keep in mind, your Honor, this same-sex marriage is a very recent innovation.  Its implications of a social and cultural nature, not to mention its impact on marriage over time, can't possibly be known now."


So Walker's purported finding of fact is not only not meaningfully supported by the evidence that he cites; it's contradicted  by the testimony of plaintiffs' own expert.

http://www.nationalreview.com/bench-memos/243159/judge-walkers-phony-finding-versus-defendants-modesty-about-predicting-future-ed-

[Cain]

To be fair, Ed Whelan is like the coffee boy of NRO.  He hasn't mastered the art of mangling logic like Jonah Goldberg, or mangling the English language (which can appear like the former distorted logic) like Kathryn Lopez.

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

To be fair, Ed Whelan is like the coffee boy of NRO.  He hasn't mastered the art of mangling logic like Jonah Goldberg, or mangling the English language (which can appear like the former distorted logic) like Kathryn Lopez.

Usually they can cough up something more compelling and interesting than, "the future is all unknowable and shit!" though.

It seems like the NRO is trying to do the old attack-your-enemy's-strengths strategy but forgot about the whole tactical angle.

One of the funniest articles they've put out in a while. I can't wait to tell more people about this and use it on unsuspecting conservatards.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

It's already split, CB. There never was an "LGBT community", rather, the fags and lesbos hate on the bisexuals and queers, and everyone hates on the trannies. It's the southern white sharecropper's racism, taken to a different issue. Really fucking sad.

Yeah, I think the "LGBT community" is more of a convention for the advocacy and social service organizations that try to serve those people.  I'm just basing this upon my experiences partnering with those groups on substance abuse prevention efforts.  And now, depending on the group you are working with, it's now called the LGBTQQIA Community

Yeah, that's basically it. Been stamped on because you're gay? Well, at least you're not a tranny! But it suits your interest to /pretend/ like everyone is included for the advocacy groups.

By "tranny" do you mean transsexual or travestite? Cause Urban Dictionary says it can mean both. But sometimes travestites are gay guys dressing up as female cause they feel like it, not because they want to be a woman. Are they stepped on by the rest of the LGBTPH'NGLUI MGLW'NAFH IA IA FHTAGHN community too? [cause afaik here they mostly aren't, although I'm not too familiar with those subcultures myself]

The term is used interchangeably here to some degree, though I think Kai means transgender here. Drag Queens are generally accepted entertainers in the gay sub-culture. As far as heterosexuals go, I get the sense that Drag Queens are looked at funny in a certain comical sense, because, well, a dude in a dress is pretty funny, whereas a dude who wants to become a chick elicits a  "WTF?!?!?! BUT IT'S YOUR DICK!!! WHY?!?!?" response. I imagine it's kinda the same occasionally with gay men, cuz, you know, they're pretty attached to their dicks too. It's a guy thing.

[Kai]

It's already split, CB. There never was an "LGBT community", rather, the fags and lesbos hate on the bisexuals and queers, and everyone hates on the trannies. It's the southern white sharecropper's racism, taken to a different issue. Really fucking sad.

Yeah, I think the "LGBT community" is more of a convention for the advocacy and social service organizations that try to serve those people.  I'm just basing this upon my experiences partnering with those groups on substance abuse prevention efforts.  And now, depending on the group you are working with, it's now called the LGBTQQIA Community

Yeah, that's basically it. Been stamped on because you're gay? Well, at least you're not a tranny! But it suits your interest to /pretend/ like everyone is included for the advocacy groups.

By "tranny" do you mean transsexual or travestite? Cause Urban Dictionary says it can mean both. But sometimes travestites are gay guys dressing up as female cause they feel like it, not because they want to be a woman. Are they stepped on by the rest of the LGBTPH'NGLUI MGLW'NAFH IA IA FHTAGHN community too? [cause afaik here they mostly aren't, although I'm not too familiar with those subcultures myself]

The term is used interchangeably here to some degree, though I think Kai means transgender here. Drag Queens are generally accepted entertainers in the gay sub-culture. As far as heterosexuals go, I get the sense that Drag Queens are looked at funny in a certain comical sense, because, well, a dude in a dress is pretty funny, whereas a dude who wants to become a chick elicits a  "WTF?!?!?! BUT IT'S YOUR DICK!!! WHY?!?!?" response. I imagine it's kinda the same occasionally with gay men, cuz, you know, they're pretty attached to their dicks too. It's a guy thing.

Yeah, transgender. Drag Queens (and kings) are gays and lesbians who do it mostly as entertainment for themselves and others. It's genderfucking dressup.

"but it's your dick" is about the least of the responses available. "Fake man" or "fake woman", "pedophile/child molester", "abberation onto god", "someone who deserves to be fucked" (as in, queer dressing is advertising for masochistic sex). Transmen get the whole "breaking femininity" and "traitor to the sex wars" and "changing for male privelege" thing. Oh, and they also "deserve to be fucked as a woman".

Or people don't say anything but laugh or beat the shit of of the person and/or rape them.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

It's already split, CB. There never was an "LGBT community", rather, the fags and lesbos hate on the bisexuals and queers, and everyone hates on the trannies. It's the southern white sharecropper's racism, taken to a different issue. Really fucking sad.

Yeah, I think the "LGBT community" is more of a convention for the advocacy and social service organizations that try to serve those people.  I'm just basing this upon my experiences partnering with those groups on substance abuse prevention efforts.  And now, depending on the group you are working with, it's now called the LGBTQQIA Community

Yeah, that's basically it. Been stamped on because you're gay? Well, at least you're not a tranny! But it suits your interest to /pretend/ like everyone is included for the advocacy groups.

By "tranny" do you mean transsexual or travestite? Cause Urban Dictionary says it can mean both. But sometimes travestites are gay guys dressing up as female cause they feel like it, not because they want to be a woman. Are they stepped on by the rest of the LGBTPH'NGLUI MGLW'NAFH IA IA FHTAGHN community too? [cause afaik here they mostly aren't, although I'm not too familiar with those subcultures myself]

The term is used interchangeably here to some degree, though I think Kai means transgender here. Drag Queens are generally accepted entertainers in the gay sub-culture. As far as heterosexuals go, I get the sense that Drag Queens are looked at funny in a certain comical sense, because, well, a dude in a dress is pretty funny, whereas a dude who wants to become a chick elicits a  "WTF?!?!?! BUT IT'S YOUR DICK!!! WHY?!?!?" response. I imagine it's kinda the same occasionally with gay men, cuz, you know, they're pretty attached to their dicks too. It's a guy thing.

Yeah, transgender. Drag Queens (and kings) are gays and lesbians who do it mostly as entertainment for themselves and others. It's genderfucking dressup.

"but it's your dick" is about the least of the responses available. "Fake man" or "fake woman", "pedophile/child molester", "abberation onto god", "someone who deserves to be fucked" (as in, queer dressing is advertising for masochistic sex). Transmen get the whole "breaking femininity" and "traitor to the sex wars" and "changing for male privelege" thing. Oh, and they also "deserve to be fucked as a woman".

Or people don't say anything but laugh or beat the shit of of the person and/or rape them.

Yeah, I suppose, but I'm a Masshole. Up here I guess it's a little more accepted, but more along the lines of, "Uh.... ok...."