Anarchy

[BabylonHoruv]

In my experience, that's 99% of them.

Chances are you don't know the rest are Anarchists because they've kept their mouths shut about it.

[Doktor Howl]

In my experience, that's 99% of them.

Chances are you don't know the rest are Anarchists because they've kept their mouths shut about it.

I'd put the odds of that in the same catagory as winning the lottery.

The type of people who are anarchists are the type of people who have to convert you.

[BabylonHoruv]

In my experience, that's 99% of them.

Chances are you don't know the rest are Anarchists because they've kept their mouths shut about it.

I'd put the odds of that in the same catagory as winning the lottery.

The type of people who are anarchists are the type of people who have to convert you.

That makes sense because of some basic aspects of Anarchism.  For Anarchy to work the vast majority of people have to be Anarchists, otherwise they are going to end up setting up a government.  Instituting an Anarchist society by a coup is not just ineffective it also goes against basic Anarchist principles.

Anarchism is also based on consensus and free association, so, as an Anarchist, if I want to work with you in a way that I can be morally comfortable with I have to convince you to do so, not coerce you to do so.

I'm pretty sure those aspects are common to any and all threads of Anarchism, although I suppose Anarcho-primitivism could be imposed via a coup.  If they managed to destroy our access to technology thoroughly enough.  Those guys scare me though.

[Doktor Howl]

In my experience, that's 99% of them.

Chances are you don't know the rest are Anarchists because they've kept their mouths shut about it.

I'd put the odds of that in the same catagory as winning the lottery.

The type of people who are anarchists are the type of people who have to convert you.

That makes sense because of some basic aspects of Anarchism.  For Anarchy to work the vast majority of people have to be Anarchists, otherwise they are going to end up setting up a government.  Instituting an Anarchist society by a coup is not just ineffective it also goes against basic Anarchist principles.

Anarchism is also based on consensus and free association, so, as an Anarchist, if I want to work with you in a way that I can be morally comfortable with I have to convince you to do so, not coerce you to do so.

I'm pretty sure those aspects are common to any and all threads of Anarchism, although I suppose Anarcho-primitivism could be imposed via a coup.  If they managed to destroy our access to technology thoroughly enough.  Those guys scare me though.

Anarchism doesn't work, period.

No matter how much you really, really want it to.

[BabylonHoruv]

In my experience, that's 99% of them.

Chances are you don't know the rest are Anarchists because they've kept their mouths shut about it.

I'd put the odds of that in the same catagory as winning the lottery.

The type of people who are anarchists are the type of people who have to convert you.

That makes sense because of some basic aspects of Anarchism.  For Anarchy to work the vast majority of people have to be Anarchists, otherwise they are going to end up setting up a government.  Instituting an Anarchist society by a coup is not just ineffective it also goes against basic Anarchist principles.

Anarchism is also based on consensus and free association, so, as an Anarchist, if I want to work with you in a way that I can be morally comfortable with I have to convince you to do so, not coerce you to do so.

I'm pretty sure those aspects are common to any and all threads of Anarchism, although I suppose Anarcho-primitivism could be imposed via a coup.  If they managed to destroy our access to technology thoroughly enough.  Those guys scare me though.

Anarchism doesn't work, period.

No matter how much you really, really want it to.

Trying to debate that with you is like debating theology with an Atheist.  My point was that even according to Anarchist doctrine Anarchy doesn't work unless most of the people in an Anarchist society (and not just 51% but the vast majority) are Anarchist.

[Doktor Howl]

Trying to debate that with you is like debating theology with an Atheist.  My point was that even according to Anarchist doctrine Anarchy doesn't work unless most of the people in an Anarchist society (and not just 51% but the vast majority) are Anarchist.

The fact that you said the word "doctrine" should give you pause for thought.

[LMNO]

Xoch, I think the bit you're missing is that not even self-professed anarchists can be sufficiently anarchic for the amount of time needed to establish an anarchy.

Ook, ook.

[BabylonHoruv]

Trying to debate that with you is like debating theology with an Atheist.  My point was that even according to Anarchist doctrine Anarchy doesn't work unless most of the people in an Anarchist society (and not just 51% but the vast majority) are Anarchist.

The fact that you said the word "doctrine" should give you pause for thought.

All political philosophies have doctrine.  In order to be a coherent philosophy you have to have certain beliefs about how people and the world work and how those beliefs can be put into practice.

Alpha.  I didn't miss that part.  That's also more than a "long enough to establish an Anarchy" issue, it's a forever issue since people have to stay Anarchist once the Anarchist society has been established.  A state can always be erected.

[Doktor Howl]

All political philosophies have doctrine.  In order to be a coherent philosophy you have to have certain beliefs about how people and the world work and how those beliefs can be put into practice.

Wait.  I thought we were talking about a functional or potentially functional political system.

You know, a workable one that takes into account the nature of the beings that make up that system.

[LMNO]

Alpha.  I didn't miss that part.  That's also more than a "long enough to establish an Anarchy" issue, it's a forever issue since people have to stay Anarchist once the Anarchist society has been established.  A state can always be erected.

Which leads you back to our point: Anarchy will never work, no matter what percentage of so-called Anarchists you have.

[Adios]

This argument still going? Move all anarchists to Somalia. If they can fix that shit I will be convinced, but not until.

[BabylonHoruv]

All political philosophies have doctrine.  In order to be a coherent philosophy you have to have certain beliefs about how people and the world work and how those beliefs can be put into practice.

Wait.  I thought we were talking about a functional or potentially functional political system.

You know, a workable one that takes into account the nature of the beings that make up that system.

An Anarchist political system is going to have to include a variety of philosophies.  Sort of the way the American system includes Democrats, Republicans, Conservatives, Progressives, etc.  But the vast majority of those are going to have to be Anarchist of some sort for Anarchy to work, just as in the American system a slim majority have to be in favor of a democratic republic.  Thus the desperate evangelism of Anarchists.  

Human Nature doesn't keep Anarchy from working any more than it requires that a Monarchy be oppressive.

[Doktor Howl]

This argument still going? Move all anarchists to Somalia. If they can fix that shit I will be convinced, but not until.

Obvious argument is obvious.

The principle problem with anarchists is that they understand how they themselves think, or like to think they think (BH would make a terrible anarchist, by the way), but they refuse to examine how groups of people think, because that collection of ugly facts would gang-rape their beautiful theory.

This is why anarchism has not functioned after a century and more of people professing its virtues.

[Doktor Howl]

Human Nature doesn't keep Anarchy from working any more than it requires that a Monarchy be oppressive.

Gimme your sammich.  And your woman.

Or better yet

*thud* <--- lead pipe in the skull from behind.

Nice sammich.  Hiya, doll.  You're coming with me.

[LMNO]

An Anarchist political system is going to have to include a variety of philosophies.  Sort of the way the American system includes Democrats, Republicans, Conservatives, Progressives, etc.  But the vast majority of those are going to have to be Anarchist of some sort for Anarchy to work, just as in the American system a slim majority have to be in favor of a democratic republic.  Thus the desperate evangelism of Anarchists.  

I'm not sure you realize how little sense that makes.  There might be different approaches on how to go about living in a stateless society, but the instant someone slips and becomes less-than-pure, the whole thing goes to shit.

Which means a true anarchy would last about 0.000001ms.