Anarchy

[Bruno]

Anarchy is the ultimate pink unicorn bullshit. Argue it all day and come full circle. Rule by the strongest or best armed or best manned is so fucking silly it may as well be about riding fucking unicorns.

People will always be people and Anarchy seems to overlook this fact as a part of fantasy.

You do not ride a fucking unicorn, man!

Unicorns live free or die! 

I reject your notion, and I wear spurs when I ride.

Doesn't matter.

The unicorn would just run off a cliff instead of taking you where you wanted to go, shouting catchy slogans, and spraying graffiti on the side of the cliff all the way down.

[Jenne]

Ok, here's the thing...until you've lived in anything CLOSE to anarchy, quit your "waving a magic wand to make it look all pretty and sparkly and shit."  REAL, honest-to-god, can't rely on anyone BUT your damned self anarchy is bullshit.  It's a system built on fear, on prejudice and selfishness.  When there's no law and no one to back up that law, you live with your eyes behind your back.

So, go to fucking Afghanistan and Darfur, people, and you tell me if you like that better than what you got here.  Go!  Flee!  Arrive at the feet of those who will have no mercy on you.  Visit a place so full of no one fighting on your side but you, and see how you think it works.

You don't know what the FUCK you are talking about if you think that living in such a mess actually works.  Not with humans.  And the high-falutin' talk of how the state is worse is not going to change my mind.  The state can be a horrible, massive obtrusion to life and all its pursuits, but anarchy is NOT a better state of being.  

I will not be moved on this.

/shit why do you make me play the Wife of An Afghan Card?

[Doktor Howl]

Well, Jenne, those people just aren't pure enough, and are lacking in the essential Revolutionary Dialectic™ as put forth by Ayn Rand and Harold Browne.



Anarchy, communism, the Free Market™, and "pure" democracy are all failed concepts.  Dig 'em back up all you like, they'll still fail, because they fail to take human nature into account.

[Jenne]

Exactly my point, Rog.  This utopian ideal that human nature won't fuck up anarchy is a pipe dream I wish folks would quit hammering and yammering about as if it was a TRULY viable panacea to all society's ills.

IT WON'T EVER WORK!  EVAR!  As soon as the rug of order and law is pulled out, the worst of the worst will DO their worst.  Time and again.  They can't help it.

[Doktor Howl]

Exactly my point, Rog.  This utopian ideal that human nature won't fuck up anarchy is a pipe dream I wish folks would quit hammering and yammering about as if it was a TRULY viable panacea to all society's ills.

IT WON'T EVER WORK!  EVAR!  As soon as the rug of order and law is pulled out, the worst of the worst will DO their worst.  Time and again.  They can't help it.

Tell that to the Ivory Tower crowd.

They won't believe you, though.  They've invested too much belief in it to change now.

[Jenne]

Exactly my point, Rog.  This utopian ideal that human nature won't fuck up anarchy is a pipe dream I wish folks would quit hammering and yammering about as if it was a TRULY viable panacea to all society's ills.

IT WON'T EVER WORK!  EVAR!  As soon as the rug of order and law is pulled out, the worst of the worst will DO their worst.  Time and again.  They can't help it.

Tell that to the Ivory Tower crowd.

They won't believe you, though.  They've invested too much belief in it to change now.

Well, I've told this forum a few times, and yeah, I don't expect to change any minds.  But I feel good stating they won't change mine, either.

[Doktor Howl]

Exactly my point, Rog.  This utopian ideal that human nature won't fuck up anarchy is a pipe dream I wish folks would quit hammering and yammering about as if it was a TRULY viable panacea to all society's ills.

IT WON'T EVER WORK!  EVAR!  As soon as the rug of order and law is pulled out, the worst of the worst will DO their worst.  Time and again.  They can't help it.

Tell that to the Ivory Tower crowd.

They won't believe you, though.  They've invested too much belief in it to change now.

Well, I've told this forum a few times, and yeah, I don't expect to change any minds.  But I feel good stating they won't change mine, either.

The arguments have become completely formulaic, and yet we all still engage in them. 

OOOOOOOK!

[Jenne]

Exactly my point, Rog.  This utopian ideal that human nature won't fuck up anarchy is a pipe dream I wish folks would quit hammering and yammering about as if it was a TRULY viable panacea to all society's ills.

IT WON'T EVER WORK!  EVAR!  As soon as the rug of order and law is pulled out, the worst of the worst will DO their worst.  Time and again.  They can't help it.

Tell that to the Ivory Tower crowd.

They won't believe you, though.  They've invested too much belief in it to change now.

Well, I've told this forum a few times, and yeah, I don't expect to change any minds.  But I feel good stating they won't change mine, either.

The arguments have become completely formulaic, and yet we all still engage in them. 

OOOOOOOK!

I think people are really passionate about what they FEEL to be the case...so that passion dies a hard death in the halls of PD.  I think the forum just draws on a certain type of person, and one facet happens to be those throwing the baby out with the bathwater, and those who embrace the ideal of one type of ideology in rejection of another.

Never mind the fact that it's STILL an ideology.

[Doktor Howl]

Exactly my point, Rog.  This utopian ideal that human nature won't fuck up anarchy is a pipe dream I wish folks would quit hammering and yammering about as if it was a TRULY viable panacea to all society's ills.

IT WON'T EVER WORK!  EVAR!  As soon as the rug of order and law is pulled out, the worst of the worst will DO their worst.  Time and again.  They can't help it.

Tell that to the Ivory Tower crowd.

They won't believe you, though.  They've invested too much belief in it to change now.

Well, I've told this forum a few times, and yeah, I don't expect to change any minds.  But I feel good stating they won't change mine, either.

The arguments have become completely formulaic, and yet we all still engage in them. 

OOOOOOOK!

I think people are really passionate about what they FEEL to be the case...so that passion dies a hard death in the halls of PD.  I think the forum just draws on a certain type of person, and one facet happens to be those throwing the baby out with the bathwater, and those who embrace the ideal of one type of ideology in rejection of another.

Never mind the fact that it's STILL an ideology.

Want != Reality.

Children learn this the first time they have a balloon pop on them.

Adults forget it for some reason, which explains credit card debt, ARMs, and weird beliefs.

[Jenne]

I think it's just another portion of the human condition.  We want the unobtainable or the sustainable, even if it's virtually impossible.

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

Ok, here's the thing...until you've lived in anything CLOSE to anarchy, quit your "waving a magic wand to make it look all pretty and sparkly and shit."  REAL, honest-to-god, can't rely on anyone BUT your damned self anarchy is bullshit.  It's a system built on fear, on prejudice and selfishness.  When there's no law and no one to back up that law, you live with your eyes behind your back.

So, go to fucking Afghanistan and Darfur, people, and you tell me if you like that better than what you got here.  Go!  Flee!  Arrive at the feet of those who will have no mercy on you.  Visit a place so full of no one fighting on your side but you, and see how you think it works.

You don't know what the FUCK you are talking about if you think that living in such a mess actually works.  Not with humans.  And the high-falutin' talk of how the state is worse is not going to change my mind.  The state can be a horrible, massive obtrusion to life and all its pursuits, but anarchy is NOT a better state of being. 

I will not be moved on this.

/shit why do you make me play the Wife of An Afghan Card?

Dude...
   \

   /
You're harshing my high, dude.

[The Great Pope of OUTSIDE]

I am totally supportive of government, and will continue to remain so. The thing is, for me personally, if I was born and lived in an anarchist society I know for a FACT that I would not have a single problem with robbing people blind if I could. There are times that I'll look through a gas station and MAKE A MAP IN MY HEAD of items I could get away with consuming/stealing without being noticed. And it happens almost instantaneously, before I even realize what I'm thinking. But I've never stolen a thing in my life. Why? BECAUSE THE MORALS OF THE GOVERNMENT DICTATE IT TO BE WRONG! And BECAUSE I have grown up in a society where thievery IS wrong, and will for the majority of the time be punished, I never even consider ACTUALLY stealing anything. And it is for exactly that same reason that MOST people will not rob me blind either. Or kill me, or rape me, if they would normally feel so inclined. Yes these things exist and do happen, and yes some people get away with it, but it is on a MUCH lesser scale than what would happen in an anarchy.

And yes, the government is a great massive entity that encroaches on my personal liberties and threatens me with violence and taxes me a great deal to pay for some things that I support and some things I don't. I understand this, but I also AGREE with it. I accept to give up some of my personal liberties in order to live in a safe and healthy community, and I accept the possibility that I might be threatened with death or imprisonment if I do something of a grave enough nature to harm someone or multiple someones on an equal level, because I know that for the most part anyone who would do the same to me would get the same treatment. Yes, America does not have a perfect justice system and I have issues with it, but IT'S BETTER THAN NO FUCKING JUSTICE SYSTEM AT ALL! And yes the government taxes me of a lot of my personal money, but I agree with that too, because a lot of that money is returning to me, helping me to pay for college, or keeping my town livable, or paying for my education and the education of my future children, or keeping me safe in my homeland, or helping out my state with its financial needs. And yes, there are things that my taxes will go to that I DON'T agree with, but at least in this system I HAVE A VOICE in where that money goes! Even if only a teeny tiny one, I still have one! And at least someone is taking care of all these things, whereas in an anarchy, none of these conveniences exist at all!

Continue to argue anarchy all you like, it's got NOTHING on the peace and safety I live in now.

[the last yatto]

Sower of discord your works must Cease
I vanquish thee now with these words of Peace

Potion- Mix the juice of one pomegranate,
with two measures of honey, fold in three bay leaves, three laurel leaves, And one clover blossom. Steam, then decant into a glass globe, Wrap the globe in blue velvet.

[Jenne]

Dude...
   \

   /
You're harshing my high, dude.

"Every party has a pooper, that's why they invited me..." 

I didn't mean to go off like that, well, I guess I did in a way, but I've been down this road before about the moaning and groaning on how no government's better than the one we have.  Ain't no such thing, in my world.  We can always do BETTER, but better =/= throwing baby with bathwater into ditch.

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

Dude...
   \

   /
You're harshing my high, dude.

"Every party has a pooper, that's why they invited me..." 

I didn't mean to go off like that, well, I guess I did in a way, but I've been down this road before about the moaning and groaning on how no government's better than the one we have.  Ain't no such thing, in my world.  We can always do BETTER, but better =/= throwing baby with bathwater into ditch.

I thought it was a great scathing post, just to be clear, and I agree.