Author Topic: So where did these roles come from, anyway?  (Read 8628 times)

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

  • Probably
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 8974
    • View Profile
Re: So where did these roles come from, anyway?
« Reply #45 on: December 01, 2010, 08:08:44 pm »
I think I was vague.  I mean that if players are allowed to strategize and have each move be a well thought out decision, then mooks should be allowed some elementary strategies.

If they don't, then your DM is a potzer.

Damn straight!
- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

"Back in my day, crazy meant something. Now everyone is crazy" - Charlie Manson

Don Coyote

  • Token Welshman
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 136858
    • View Profile
Re: So where did these roles come from, anyway?
« Reply #46 on: December 01, 2010, 08:13:17 pm »
As an aside I don't even play 3/3.5, I use AE/AU with some crossover stuff from 3/3.5, all the spellcasters use at least d6 for hit dice.

what's ae/au again?

Arcana Evolved/ Arcana Unearthed.http://www.montecook.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?arcanaevolved

YIFF BULLSHIT.  GODDAMN BIPEDAL DOGS AND CATS AND LIZARDS. 


:lulz: I usually find ways to scew the campaign so no one picks non-humans.

The Good Reverend Roger

  • Horrible Bastard
  • One-Armed Jizz Moppers
  • Deserved It
  • **
  • Posts: 36736
    • View Profile
Re: So where did these roles come from, anyway?
« Reply #47 on: December 01, 2010, 08:17:41 pm »
As an aside I don't even play 3/3.5, I use AE/AU with some crossover stuff from 3/3.5, all the spellcasters use at least d6 for hit dice.

what's ae/au again?

Arcana Evolved/ Arcana Unearthed.http://www.montecook.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?arcanaevolved

YIFF BULLSHIT.  GODDAMN BIPEDAL DOGS AND CATS AND LIZARDS. 


:lulz: I usually find ways to scew the campaign so no one picks non-humans.

Doesn't help.

Also, while we're on the subject, the fastest way to get laughed out of my group is to ask to play a drow or some templated crap.

If you have to rely on a hackneyed cliche to make your character "interesting", then you are utterly without worth as a RPG player.  ESPECIALLY in Pathfinder, where you can tool your race and class...Besides the fact that there's a little something called FUCKING BACKSTORY.  AND CHARACTERIZATION.  Drizzle dorkdom has been done to fucking DEATH.

And assholes who play CN and then excuse their disruptive shit with "I'M ONLY PLAYING MY ALIGNMENT" are typically murdered and thrown in the nearest pit trap.  WHO CHOSE THE ALIGNMENT, FUCKWAD?

" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Jasper

  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 67367
  • Pull-Start Enema Wasteland
    • View Profile
Re: So where did these roles come from, anyway?
« Reply #48 on: December 01, 2010, 08:19:56 pm »
FUCK chaotic neutral. 

And for that matter, CE, TN, and NE can also go to hell.

The Good Reverend Roger

  • Horrible Bastard
  • One-Armed Jizz Moppers
  • Deserved It
  • **
  • Posts: 36736
    • View Profile
Re: So where did these roles come from, anyway?
« Reply #49 on: December 01, 2010, 08:27:53 pm »
FUCK chaotic neutral. 

And for that matter, CE, TN, and NE can also go to hell.

TN can be played two ways, and fuck the hippy version.

And no evil characters are permitted in my campaign.  WHAT PART OF "HERO" DO THESE PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND?  Evil people are for being chopped up in the final encounter.

Also, having tried my hand as a player, with the exception of Sister Fracture and Frank the Bastard, every DM in Tucson bites balls.

1.  Book rules or GTFO.  I don't care if you think the cleric is a broken class, work harder on your fucking encounters and fucking deal with it.

2.  LEARN TO USE THE EL/APL SYSTEM.  FFS.  NO, A WIGHT IS NOT AN APPROPRIATE ENCOUNTER FOR 1st LEVEL CHARACTERS.

3.  NPCs are for buying shit off of and plot line.  They are not there to do everything while your players watch in mute admiration.

4.  LET THE DICE FALL WHERE THEY MAY.  If someone croaks, they croak.  If the players own the fuck out of your bad guy, learn from it and drive on.  Fudging rolls is for sissies.

5.  Class abilities are NOT SUPPOSED TO BE REALISTIC.  The PCs are FANTASY HEROES, not cops in NYC.  No part of the "evasion" class ability says the rogue needs something to hide behind, etc, to avoid damage on a successful reflex save.  It just happens.

6.  No.  You did NOT roll 12 consecutive crits after a nat 20 on initiative, screen monkey.  You know it, we know it, and you're about to eat that screen you're cheating behind.

7.  MOST IMPORTANT:  PREPARE.  Do not "wing it".  We can tell.  If you don't have the time or the desire to put some preparation into your campaign, step aside and let the man go through, let the man go through.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Cramulus

  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 132086
    • View Profile
    • Cramul.us
Re: So where did these roles come from, anyway?
« Reply #50 on: December 01, 2010, 08:29:09 pm »
I ran this campaign last year in which the PCs made two characters, a low level one and a high level one

the low level PCs were trying to get into this guild, and the high level PCs were the highest ranking members and guild masters

(so they were essentially sending themselves on missions)


this one guy decided his high level character was going to be like 3 levels of paladin and then 10+ levels of templates. He was an angelic half-dragon minotaur or something crazy like that.

On the first day of game, the PCs arrived at their guild hall just as the sun was setting. Everybody's character said "Okay I go to bed, we'll start the quest in the morning." Except the fucking minotaur. Who told me he will take the fatigued status and stay up all night.

"Okay, what are you doing all night?" I asked him.

"Well, I can cast continual light twice a day as a spell-like ability. So I cast one on each of my horns."

"Okay..." I said skeptically. "Now you have golden, glowing minotaur horns."

"Then I use my angel wings to fly above the city, looking out for crime."

"Let me see your character sheet," I said.

He handed it to me.

I tore it up.

Jasper

  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 67367
  • Pull-Start Enema Wasteland
    • View Profile
Re: So where did these roles come from, anyway?
« Reply #51 on: December 01, 2010, 08:31:56 pm »
Agree wholeheartedly on #4.  DMs should obey dice too.  Mark it zero, as they say.

Don Coyote

  • Token Welshman
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 136858
    • View Profile
Re: So where did these roles come from, anyway?
« Reply #52 on: December 01, 2010, 08:35:33 pm »


Doesn't help.

Also, while we're on the subject, the fastest way to get laughed out of my group is to ask to play a drow or some templated crap.

If you have to rely on a hackneyed cliche to make your character "interesting", then you are utterly without worth as a RPG player.  ESPECIALLY in Pathfinder, where you can tool your race and class...Besides the fact that there's a little something called FUCKING BACKSTORY.  AND CHARACTERIZATION.  Drizzle dorkdom has been done to fucking DEATH.

And assholes who play CN and then excuse their disruptive shit with "I'M ONLY PLAYING MY ALIGNMENT" are typically murdered and thrown in the nearest pit trap.  WHO CHOSE THE ALIGNMENT, FUCKWAD?



But I like CN. I can play it properly without being disruptive. :argh!: And the one time I fucked over a party while playing I was LN. :lulz: I decided the honorable thing to do was to sell out the rest of party as they were a bunch of back stabbing thieves and terrorists.

And templates are for the DM to make wicked shit for the PCs to fight. END OF STORY. No fucking templated PCs.

Don Coyote

  • Token Welshman
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 136858
    • View Profile
Re: So where did these roles come from, anyway?
« Reply #53 on: December 01, 2010, 08:36:13 pm »
Agree wholeheartedly on #4.  DMs should obey dice too.  Mark it zero, as they say.

Agreed. If you don't want to abide by the dice then don't play a game that uses fucking dice.

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

  • Probably
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 8974
    • View Profile
Re: So where did these roles come from, anyway?
« Reply #54 on: December 01, 2010, 08:36:30 pm »
FUCK chaotic neutral. 

And for that matter, CE, TN, and NE can also go to hell.

TN can be played two ways, and fuck the hippy version.

And no evil characters are permitted in my campaign.  WHAT PART OF "HERO" DO THESE PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND?  Evil people are for being chopped up in the final encounter.

Also, having tried my hand as a player, with the exception of Sister Fracture and Frank the Bastard, every DM in Tucson bites balls.

1.  Book rules or GTFO.  I don't care if you think the cleric is a broken class, work harder on your fucking encounters and fucking deal with it.

2.  LEARN TO USE THE EL/APL SYSTEM.  FFS.  NO, A WIGHT IS NOT AN APPROPRIATE ENCOUNTER FOR 1st LEVEL CHARACTERS.

3.  NPCs are for buying shit off of and plot line.  They are not there to do everything while your players watch in mute admiration.

4.  LET THE DICE FALL WHERE THEY MAY.  If someone croaks, they croak.  If the players own the fuck out of your bad guy, learn from it and drive on.  Fudging rolls is for sissies.

5.  Class abilities are NOT SUPPOSED TO BE REALISTIC.  The PCs are FANTASY HEROES, not cops in NYC.  No part of the "evasion" class ability says the rogue needs something to hide behind, etc, to avoid damage on a successful reflex save.  It just happens.

6.  No.  You did NOT roll 12 consecutive crits after a nat 20 on initiative, screen monkey.  You know it, we know it, and you're about to eat that screen you're cheating behind.

7.  MOST IMPORTANT:  PREPARE.  Do not "wing it".  We can tell.  If you don't have the time or the desire to put some preparation into your campaign, step aside and let the man go through, let the man go through.

THIS! FOR THE LOVE OF GARY GYGAX THIS!

Except house rules are ok if they aren't major changes.

(For example, we have a house rule that a 1 on an attack will always result in a dropped weapon, broken bow string or if you are using fists, an AoO)

And to be fair on the evil bit... I was once part of an evil campaign. It was awesome and there have been five campaigns since then by Good guys to fix the horrible mess they left the world in.

Also, CN can be played entirely appropriately. It doesn't mean you're batshit crazy, it means you tend to do what's best for you, but if you like someone you might help them out.
- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

"Back in my day, crazy meant something. Now everyone is crazy" - Charlie Manson

Jasper

  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 67367
  • Pull-Start Enema Wasteland
    • View Profile
Re: So where did these roles come from, anyway?
« Reply #55 on: December 01, 2010, 08:40:43 pm »
Agree wholeheartedly on #4.  DMs should obey dice too.  Mark it zero, as they say.

Agreed. If you don't want to abide by the dice then don't play a game that uses fucking dice.

Besides, when the dice smile upon you it's a really big kick.  Like when you and your buddy bluff your way into an abandoned missile silo guarded by dozens of scary ass alien demons, waltz straight into their main chamber, fuck up their portal and climb out through the launch doors just as they realize how stupid you made them look, and make off laughing like bastards. 

Of course, if I wasn't luckier than hell, we'd be dead.  The GM said to us, I will kill you guys if you let me.  We didn't.  8)

Don Coyote

  • Token Welshman
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 136858
    • View Profile
Re: So where did these roles come from, anyway?
« Reply #56 on: December 01, 2010, 08:43:24 pm »
Agree wholeheartedly on #4.  DMs should obey dice too.  Mark it zero, as they say.

Agreed. If you don't want to abide by the dice then don't play a game that uses fucking dice.

Besides, when the dice smile upon you it's a really big kick.  Like when you and your buddy bluff your way into an abandoned missile silo guarded by dozens of scary ass alien demons, waltz straight into their main chamber, fuck up their portal and climb out through the launch doors just as they realize how stupid you made them look, and make off laughing like bastards. 

Of course, if I wasn't luckier than hell, we'd be dead.  The GM said to us, I will kill you guys if you let me.  We didn't.  8)

And that is why I like dice.

Cain

  • Alea iacta est
  • Chekha
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 106451
    • View Profile
Re: So where did these roles come from, anyway?
« Reply #57 on: December 01, 2010, 08:46:01 pm »
Chaotic Neutral, Lawful Good and Chaotic Evil are the alignments most likely to be picked by complete idiots.

I actually can pull off a fairly convincing Chaotic Neutral, it's just well...it's like Pinealists.  Pinealists have to show you how wacky they are.  Bad CN players have to show you how "chaotic" and "unpredictable" they are.

And then you have the Chaotic Evil team mate who decides it would be really chaotic and evil to stab his team mates in the back and ruin the whole game.

Lawful Good invariably devolves into either Lawful Stupid, or Stupid Good, unless in the hands of a decent player.

Jasper

  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 67367
  • Pull-Start Enema Wasteland
    • View Profile
Re: So where did these roles come from, anyway?
« Reply #58 on: December 01, 2010, 08:48:33 pm »
True.

No matter what alignment you play though, playing the alignment should come second to being a fun person to have around.

Cramulus

  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 132086
    • View Profile
    • Cramul.us
Re: So where did these roles come from, anyway?
« Reply #59 on: December 01, 2010, 08:58:33 pm »
True.

No matter what alignment you play though, playing the alignment should come second to being a fun person to have around.

yesssss, this!


remember Tiax from baldur's gate? You were nervous to let him join your party because he was a CN berserker or something... but then everything that came out of his mouth was pure gold