no. NO NO NO

[BadBeast]

I was thinking, if we got Dan Brown interested in P2, he might want to write his next book about it, get too close, and actually get killed.

Wouldn't have to even go as far as that.. Just spread rumours in the right places that he's researching P2 for his new book.
Called "Calvi's Noose"   

[Triple Zero]

One of our public broadcasting organizations (yes we even have a multi-party system for TV) did a documentary series on the history of Europe, I heard it's pretty good and downloaded the eps but I still need to watch it.

Six episodes so far are available with English subtitles:
http://weblogs.vpro.nl/ineuropa/2010/01/22/6-episodes-with-english-subtitles/

[Nephew Twiddleton]

We had UKTV History Channel, but they didn't seem to realise that quite a lot of UK History happened before 1939, and  after 1945.

Well, you guys were pretty uninteresting between 1814 and 1914, since you weren't involved in any American wars and such. Maybe if you guys picked a side in the Civil War, you would have more history.

Blight,
-Going with the prevailing American thought that history is a list of wars involving the US starting from 1492.

Wow, I should bump "Paynes List of Things" then.

I accidentally History'ed all over it.

It's more a joking commentary of your average American's historical knowledge which tends to be Amerocentric and full of gaps. My guess it goes something like this:
Some stuff happened, sometimes God was involved
Romans
Jesus
Christianity
Crusades
Columbus
American Revolution
Civil War
World War I
Great Depression
World War II
Korean War
Nam
Reagan
Gulf War
Clinton
Terrorism
Socialism
2012
Jesus

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I was thinking, if we got Dan Brown interested in P2, he might want to write his next book about it, get too close, and actually get killed.

Wouldn't have to even go as far as that.. Just spread rumours in the right places that he's researching P2 for his new book.
Called "Calvi's Noose"   

Not a Sicilian necktie?

[Cain]

Actually, according to most history and education experts, the only country with a more insanely insular and nation-centric view of teaching history than the USA is....Britain.

Norman Davies makes quite a deal of this in the intro to his History of Europe.  He points out that despite the notable failings of the Soviet Union education system (Vulgar Marxist Five Stage View of History, horribly chauvinistic etc) their history lessons were actually amazing, and would cover European, American, Central Asian, Chinese, African and SE Asian/Australasian history, often in quite some depth.

In the UK you get to do the Romans (in Britain), Tudors, Stuarts, Normans, Industrial Revolution, WWI, WWII (the Blitz and evacuation...not actually anything happening in Europe) and then....history ends.

If you're lucky, you may get the occasional module on the French Revolution, or the Ancient Greeks.  But you probably wont, especially given how the cirriculum has now changed to "All Literarcy and Maths, all the time".  It's gotten to the point that we're actually incorporating vast elements of the history requirements into Literacy and Maths (write a comparative essay on Roman and Celtic warriors...do these sums written in Roman numerals) simply because there isn't the time for it.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Actually, according to most history and education experts, the only country with a more insanely insular and nation-centric view of teaching history than the USA is....Britain.

Norman Davies makes quite a deal of this in the intro to his History of Europe.  He points out that despite the notable failings of the Soviet Union education system (Vulgar Marxist Five Stage View of History, horribly chauvinistic etc) their history lessons were actually amazing, and would cover European, American, Central Asian, Chinese, African and SE Asian/Australasian history, often in quite some depth.

In the UK you get to do the Romans (in Britain), Tudors, Stuarts, Normans, Industrial Revolution, WWI, WWII (the Blitz and evacuation...not actually anything happening in Europe) and then....history ends.

If you're lucky, you may get the occasional module on the French Revolution, or the Ancient Greeks.  But you probably wont, especially given how the cirriculum has now changed to "All Literarcy and Maths, all the time".  It's gotten to the point that we're actually incorporating vast elements of the history requirements into Literacy and Maths (write a comparative essay on Roman and Celtic warriors...do these sums written in Roman numerals) simply because there isn't the time for it.

Well, that explains where we get our own historical attitudes from. Over here we cover the French Revolution in no great detail, mainly because it was a democratic revolution occurring around the same time as ours and was somewhat relevant to our own history, but, kinda like in your model, we get most of the info from reading Tale of Two Cities. Greeks are covered a little more over here.

My history teachers in high school were pretty good, but the school I went to was an exam school (a public school that you can get into by having a sufficiently high score on a standardized test. I understand they're a peculiar and fairly unheard of phenomenon elsewhere in the US) that had Latin as mandatory course from grades 7-11, with an option for a classical Greek elective in your senior year. That said, the only history courses I recall having are Ancient History (spent a lot of time on Greece and Rome, some time on Egypt and Persia, 1 week on Mesopotamia, and touching on other civilizations at the time) and American History. I'm fairly sure I took World History but I don't remember it, and I know we didn't cover Medieval/Renaissance History at all, except in a vague proto-American history sort of way.

[Suu]

We had UKTV History Channel, but they didn't seem to realise that quite a lot of UK History happened before 1939, and  after 1945.

Well, you guys were pretty uninteresting between 1814 and 1914, since you weren't involved in any American wars and such. Maybe if you guys picked a side in the Civil War, you would have more history.

Blight,
-Going with the prevailing American thought that history is a list of wars involving the US starting from 1492.

Wow, I should bump "Paynes List of Things" then.

I accidentally History'ed all over it.

It's more a joking commentary of your average American's historical knowledge which tends to be Amerocentric and full of gaps. My guess it goes something like this:
Some stuff happened, sometimes God was involved
Romans
Jesus
Christianity
Crusades
Columbus
American Revolution
Civil War
World War I
Great Depression
World War II
Korean War
Nam
Reagan
Gulf War
Clinton
Terrorism
Socialism
2012
Jesus

Addendum:

This isn't pointing the finger at anyone on this board, as I consider you all intellectual equals. But I've decided to summarize how I think American history must be actually taught right now:


In the beginning, there was Columbus, he was the only one who found America. Ever.
Spanish guys come over, kill Montezuma, and that's why you get diarrhea when you visit Mexico.
Pilgrims are really nice guys and they eat turkey with Indians.
The British are bad, and tax tea, so Paul Revere rides and tells people to fight.
The Revolutionary War The War Against England
George Washington is the first president.
We fight another war against England, but we'll skip that, and talk about the French giving us the Statue of Liberty
Something boring happens...oh right, the Industrial Revolution
Lincoln is elected President, slavery is bad.
The Civil War The War Against Slavery
Something something about carpetbaggers, scalawags, and the railroad. John Wayne movies take place here.
People in Europe are fighting, let's ignore them for a while.
World War I The War for the United States to look Super Cool in the End
Flappers tape their boobs down!
Prohibition happens, but people still make their own alcohol. It's cool to drink, even when you're not allowed.
The gaudy flappers spend all the money, country is broke, everyone is depressed.
Hitler is evil.
Mussolini is evil.
Japan is VERY evil.
World War II The War Against Nazis
Russia is communist! OSHI-
Communism is bad!
Korea is splitting up because of Communism! Let's stop it!
The Korean War The First War Against Communism
Oh fuck shit damn, Communism!
Did I mention Communism was bad? Don't let the Russians do anything! OH FUCK!
Communism in Vietnam?! FUCK!
The Vietnam War (Don't call it a war! We didn't win!) The Second War Against Communism

--Fill in the blanks with "We didn't Start the Fire by Billy Joel"--

Iraq, Iran, Syria, Lybia...shit, if you are an Islamic country, we hate you! Goddamn. You better not be communist! If Russia is helping you we'll bust a cap! GODDAMN!
Wut? Communism over? Booo hisss....need...new...target...
Oh there goes those fucking Islamic countries again, damn!
The Persian Gulf War George Bush Sr. and the not-so-Last Crusade
OJ Simpson's glove didn't fit.
Bill Clinton got a blowjob.
OH SHIT FUCK DAMN TERRORISTS HIT THE TWIN TOWERS OH WTF WE ARE INVINCIBLE!
The War on Terrorism
While we're over there...
The Iraq War George Bush Jr. And the Last Crusade
STOP EVERYTHING: BLACK PRESIDENT ELECTED

History over.

Now class, that's all you need to know for now, here are the answers to the standardized test you need to take so you can pass and I can get a raise. Please study these instead of anything else you'll need to know. Thanks.

[Suu]

I had bitchin' history classes. But I also was all AP in high school, and graduated before NCLB.

I did have a biology/origins class error that I brought up yesterday in my Human Origins class, and my prof said that I wasn't the only one.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

 

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Oh, also World History = History of Western Civilization

Asia, Africa and South America? Only relevant when white people are involved.

[Cain]

Oh, also World History = History of Western Civilization

Asia, Africa and South America? Only relevant when white people are involved.

Norman Davies made this point in the above mentioned book as well. 

I was also quite lucky in having good history teachers.  From what I can recall, all British schools are mandated to teach British (meaning English) history from 1000 AD to 1500 AD, British (meaning English) history from 1500 AD to 1750 AD and British (meaning English) history from 1750 to the Present.

And every school must watch Schinder's List learn about the Holocaust.

All other modules are optional, and up to the teacher to decide.  And since the teacher is, in 99% of cases, a product of the insular British History method, this invariably ends up being a more focused look at the Tudors, Stuarts, Normans, Industrial Revolution or Nazis bombing London. 

The two best teachers I had incidentally, well, one of them was actually a Maths teacher most of the time (dual Honours in Maths/History) and the other did Scottish history.  This may be coincidence, but I doubt it.

[BadBeast]

I didn't take History at School, because there was a girl I had a huge crush on who was taking Geography, and you only got the option of one or the other. So I went for the girl, and learned about Ox-bow lakes, and glacial fucking scree. The girl opted out, after two weeks and did Commerce instead, and now I can't even remember what her name was.     But I can tell Granite from Basalt, and an Island from an Isthmus.
Somehow I learned that the Battle of Clontarf was in 1014 too. 

[Cain]

I took both Geography and History.

I couldn't do Art though.  Or continue with French.

[Suu]

Oh, also World History = History of Western Civilization

Asia, Africa and South America? Only relevant when white people are involved.

I had both World History AND Western Civ. I learned about cool exotic places like China and Japan! We get tea from them!

I didn't take History at School, because there was a girl I had a huge crush on who was taking Geography, and you only got the option of one or the other. So I went for the girl, and learned about Ox-bow lakes, and glacial fucking scree. The girl opted out, after two weeks and did Commerce instead, and now I can't even remember what her name was.    But I can tell Granite from Basalt, and an Island from an Isthmus.
Somehow I learned that the Battle of Clontarf was in 1014 too.  

I realized Americans suck at geography now because they took Carmen Sandiego off the air.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I didn't take History at School, because there was a girl I had a huge crush on who was taking Geography, and you only got the option of one or the other. So I went for the girl, and learned about Ox-bow lakes, and glacial fucking scree. The girl opted out, after two weeks and did Commerce instead, and now I can't even remember what her name was.     But I can tell Granite from Basalt, and an Island from an Isthmus.
Somehow I learned that the Battle of Clontarf was in 1014 too. 

Ah poor Brian Boru,  

We had the option of more science first for more history later or more history first for more science later. I chose science first and did poorly due to laziness and failing to come up with science projects, tolerating the stench of formalyn and sufficiently understanding mathematics.  Apparently my hormones blocked those mental abilities, since I did well with them in college.