Horror-mirth and reaction formation

[The Johnny]

I think that when we laugh at the state of the world, deep down we are not fooling ourselves, its just merely a superficial defense towards the anxiety that we feel deep down.

Laughing at a funeral? Jumping in joy that Palin might win in 2012? Funny how unscrupulous and cynical corporations are?

Not really.

Call me a bummer, but id rather not pretend pillaging and misery is funny, lest i start feeling sad about good things.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I think that the laughter is just at the ridiculousness of it all. After a certain point you have to laugh because it is funny. A macabre sort of funny. We can't help it. Most humor is at someone else's expense. It's all natural. And you can tell what's going on with what kind of laugh it is.

Feeling sad about good things is also natural. You'd feel sad if your best friend had to go far away for this awesome job, and you probably weren't going to see him again, at least not for a long time. It all really depends on situation. Mixed emotions are allowed in any situation.

Funerals- I want plenty of laughter at mine. It can't all be sad. I crack jokes at funerals now for that reason, even if it is tasteless. Best time to do it too, even if a joke is lame, people will laugh at it.
Palin- Not only would that be funny but with the state of politics in America now it won't make too much of a difference either way. Besides. Blessing in disguise. Obama's a godsent to the GOP, Palin's the same for everyone not in the GOP.
Corporations- It's funny that people complain about them but vote for people who only have the corporations' interests at heart, as well as continue to buy their goods for the sake of convenience.

Just my two cents.

ETA: Feeling the need to laugh is also better than not feeling anything at all. Apathy sucks balls.

[Phox]

I think that the laughter is just at the ridiculousness of it all. After a certain point you have to laugh because it is funny. A macabre sort of funny. We can't help it. Most humor is at someone else's expense. It's all natural. And you can tell what's going on with what kind of laugh it is.

Feeling sad about good things is also natural. You'd feel sad if your best friend had to go far away for this awesome job, and you probably weren't going to see him again, at least not for a long time. It all really depends on situation. Mixed emotions are allowed in any situation.

Funerals- I want plenty of laughter at mine. It can't all be sad. I crack jokes at funerals now for that reason, even if it is tasteless. Best time to do it too, even if a joke is lame, people will laugh at it.
Palin- Not only would that be funny but with the state of politics in America now it won't make too much of a difference either way. Besides. Blessing in disguise. Obama's a godsent to the GOP, Palin's the same for everyone not in the GOP.
Corporations- It's funny that people complain about them but vote for people who only have the corporations' interests at heart, as well as continue to buy their goods for the sake of convenience.

Just my two cents.

ETA: Feeling the need to laugh is also better than not feeling anything at all. Apathy sucks balls.[/b][/size]

This. Emphasis added on my favorite part.

[Jasper]

I would say that it is fundamentally wrong to say defense mechanisms of any kind are superficial.  There's really no benefit to saying "well this facet of human experience is wrong, and this one is right."  You may not value your horrormirth, but that's your loss, not ours.

[The Johnny]

I would say that it is fundamentally wrong to say defense mechanisms of any kind are superficial.  There's really no benefit to saying "well this facet of human experience is wrong, and this one is right."  You may not value your horrormirth, but that's your loss, not ours.

I worded that wrongly, i meant that the joy derived from reaction formation is shallow, not that the mechanism itself is.

I personally think/feel its more realistic and sincere (healthier?) to not have to rely on it.

[The Johnny]

I think that the laughter is just at the ridiculousness of it all. After a certain point you have to laugh because it is funny. A macabre sort of funny. We can't help it. Most humor is at someone else's expense. It's all natural. And you can tell what's going on with what kind of laugh it is.

Bolded part is just tautological. Saying humour is usually at someone's expense is a whole different thing; what is it when the joke is on all of us and you keep on laughing?

Feeling sad about good things is also natural. You'd feel sad if your best friend had to go far away for this awesome job, and you probably weren't going to see him again, at least not for a long time. It all really depends on situation. Mixed emotions are allowed in any situation.

That's not a pure good thing do, that's an ambiguous situation, you wont see your friend as often (sad part) but you know he will get a good job (joy part).

Funerals- I want plenty of laughter at mine. It can't all be sad. I crack jokes at funerals now for that reason, even if it is tasteless. Best time to do it too, even if a joke is lame, people will laugh at it.

Ok, just pretend nothing happened, its all good. Throw a party.

Palin- Not only would that be funny but with the state of politics in America now it won't make too much of a difference either way. Besides. Blessing in disguise. Obama's a godsent to the GOP, Palin's the same for everyone not in the GOP.

So funny, war-monger, racist, "anti-beggar" candidate winning. Gonna have to pay for all your medical expenses even if you cant afford it LOL.

Corporations- It's funny that people complain about them but vote for people who only have the corporations' interests at heart, as well as continue to buy their goods for the sake of convenience.

Yes, hilarious.

Just my two cents.

ETA: Feeling the need to laugh is also better than not feeling anything at all. Apathy sucks balls.

I dont understand where you got that i was promoting apathy.

[Phox]

Feeling sad about good things is also natural. You'd feel sad if your best friend had to go far away for this awesome job, and you probably weren't going to see him again, at least not for a long time. It all really depends on situation. Mixed emotions are allowed in any situation.

That's not a pure good thing do, that's an ambiguous situation, you wont see your friend as often (sad part) but you know he will get a good job (joy part).

Actually, it's about as close to a "pure" good thing as things get. If my paidika or my fiancée got a job somewhere far away that was perfect for her, then I would be sad, but it really would be the best possible outcome for her.

Funerals- I want plenty of laughter at mine. It can't all be sad. I crack jokes at funerals now for that reason, even if it is tasteless. Best time to do it too, even if a joke is lame, people will laugh at it.

Ok, just pretend nothing happened, its all good. Throw a party.

Death isn't something to worry about. Fuck it, dude's dead. He got out. Be happy for him.

Palin- Not only would that be funny but with the state of politics in America now it won't make too much of a difference either way. Besides. Blessing in disguise. Obama's a godsent to the GOP, Palin's the same for everyone not in the GOP.

So funny, war-monger, racist, "anti-beggar" candidate winning. Gonna have to pay for all your medical expenses even if you cant afford it LOL.

On so many levels. 

Corporations- It's funny that people complain about them but vote for people who only have the corporations' interests at heart, as well as continue to buy their goods for the sake of convenience.

Yes, hilarious.

Yes, yes it is. 

Just my two cents.

ETA: Feeling the need to laugh is also better than not feeling anything at all. Apathy sucks balls.

I dont understand where you got that i was promoting apathy.

I don't think he meant that you were promoting apathy, but if you're not laughing or crying over this shit... well, then you aren't feeling anymore.

[hooplala]

Either you find it funny, or you don't... why should you care how others feel about something?

[The Johnny]

I find things like that either make me sad or angry.

I dont really mind if others enjoy the horror-mirth and it wasnt my purpose to come off as an attack, i wanted to see what others thought, because i seriously do see a strong association between it and reaction formation and im sharing how i feel about it.

[hooplala]

I think it was John Adams who said something like "You can either laugh or cry, I prefer to laugh."  I agree with that.

[Epimetheus]

I would say that it is fundamentally wrong to say defense mechanisms of any kind are superficial.  There's really no benefit to saying "well this facet of human experience is wrong, and this one is right."  You may not value your horrormirth, but that's your loss, not ours.

I worded that wrongly, i meant that the joy derived from reaction formation is shallow, not that the mechanism itself is.

I personally think/feel its more realistic and sincere (healthier?) to not have to rely on it.

Erm, who are you to say the joy isn't genuine?
It seems to me seeing everything as funny depends on perspective, not on suppressing one's real emotions.
There is something hilarious about the absurdity in life and in the stupid things people do. I think most of us laughers would agree that's actually a healthier outlook than facing anxiety and depression at every stupid or horrible thing in life. There's nothing "shallow" about it. (Prick.)

[Cramulus]

from where I'm sitting ---

I laugh because absurdism is the only solace that makes sense to me. The world is getting progressively more fucked every day, and the avenues to fixing it are getting more narrow and hard to access. What the fuck can we do - write to our elected officials and beg them to stop selling out and screwing us? Feels like serfs politely asking the nobles to share the wealth. Ain't gonna happen. Even the legitimate channels for protest, theoretically the forces that are supposed to resist the fucked up stuff in this world, get watered down and dispersed so as to be as ineffective as possible. And it's not like the system is just malfunctioning right now - that's how the system is built.

So what can we do? How can we achieve a decent quality of life in a world which has stolen away our freedoms and resources bit by bit? How can we COPE with the fact that things get grimmer and grimmer every time you turn on the TV? That as individuals, we have no ability to affect the demon machine we create every day just by living our lives and participating in culture?

Absurdism is the best medicine. And Absurdism doesn't mean laughing at tragedy -- but it does mean that you get to pick what your world means, nevermind the class warfare, nevermind the ineffective form of democracy we live in, nevermind that we're red blood cells in an organism which is slowly poisoning itself and dying of obesity.


Wrote a rant about this here:

http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=26917.msg949513#msg949513



The other component of horrormirth, to me, is something from the Principia.. It's that the season of Aftermath is coming. That's the most hopeful and optimistic thing in the Principia. After a long winter of Bureaucracy, there is Aftermath. Things cannot stay the way they are forever, the universe is too fast and dynamic for anything to stay the same for long. The world we live in will be dismantled and something new will come. And we just have to keep that in our hearts so that when the walls come tumbling down, we have an image to build towards, something new and wonderful.

Aftermath, sweet Aftermath ... if we want to get there, we have to ride the fucker down. Things do have to get worse before they get better. Things like Sarah Palin and the backscatter device and the attempt to destroy Julian Assange... these are catalysts for action, they charge up the forces of Aftermath, the potential energy of real change.

I mean, think about the civil rights movement. The Machine is designed to make sure everybody is happy with their roles. Separate but equal. But people weren't happy with the status quo. But things had to get bad before they woke up and did something about it.

So you may think of it as useless optimism, but I do see all the BULLSHIT going on right now as part of an escalatory process, the end result of which will be actual change. So there's a silver lining to all of this.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

What is there not to laugh about? I might feel anger if I believed that it could be different... but I don't. If I thought that somehow THIS government had gone bad while other governments resisted the temptation... maybe I would find it horrormirthy. The truth is government is simply men leading men and all of them are nearly blind. Why be upset? Why be angry? Its only our unrealistic expectations that have failed...

The world is no more fucked now than its ever been... its just fucked in a different position. When is a better time to have lived? The early and mid 20th century, when wars larger than had ever been seen killed millions? When nuclear bombs were introduced and children were taught to hide under their desks as some kind of protection? Or was it less fucked when we believed that the smudgy people were somehow less than us non-smudgy people?

Or maybe the 1800's when Robber Barons controlled all the important stuff, when kids died frequently and adults died young...

Or was it less fucked when Protestants and Catholics were taking turns lopping off each others heads in Europe, while Cotten Mather burned people at the stake for consorting with Demons?

Or perhaps when the world was ruled by inbred Royals and the Pope? When men left their hovels to go kill the infidel? When those who stayed behind raped what was unprotected?

When was the world less fucked?

When were humans less screwed?

Was it better when we believed in the Sky Daddy and a flat earth?

Was it better when we didn't know that we should wash our hands after touching dead stuff?

Maybe back in the day when it was only proteins that were self replicating, perhaps then things were less absurd...

[Roaring Biscuit!]

Maybe this has been said already, but I wouldn't know, I only skimmed the rest of the thread, but generally laughter is considered (by some) to be a social reaction acknowledging that an event etc. is inappropriate.

And this world is downright inappropriate.

x

edd

[Whatever]

I think it was John Adams who said something like "You can either laugh or cry, I prefer to laugh."  I agree with that.

This!

Crying stuffs your nose up and ruins your mascara. 

In honesty, I do understand that some of this shit that people laugh at is just plain out not funny.  But when it gets so terrible that you want to dig your bomb shelter and hide from the world, laughing about it and making fun of it is just a natural response for many people.  I'm one of the worst who will find something to giggle about in the worst of situations, more out of not being in a position to really do anything and being frustrated that anything else.