Italy to ban plastic bags

[Adios]

Without some kind of smoking ban, it would be highly unlikely I would ever be in a bar.  Along with every other asthmatic who has severe allergic reactions to cigarette smoke (breathing becoming difficult, wheezing etc).

I also note no-one is touching this with a barge pole.

I read it. I kinda hinted at it with why can't there be both smoking and non-smoking places? It is well known smoking affects people with asthma badly.

[Fujikoma]

Without some kind of smoking ban, it would be highly unlikely I would ever be in a bar.  Along with every other asthmatic who has severe allergic reactions to cigarette smoke (breathing becoming difficult, wheezing etc).

I also note no-one is touching this with a barge pole.

I read it. I kinda hinted at it with why can't there be both smoking and non-smoking places? It is well known smoking affects people with asthma badly.

Yeah, kind of my take on the matter too... I don't really want to get into it, my cousin is asthmatic... I often go places that don't allow smoking, I'm just saying, making it a matter of law takes the policy out of the hands of the business owner, who likely knows what kinds of customers frequent their place of business. Maybe they could hang a big, nasty lung banner outside their place of business if they allow smoking inside?

[LMNO]

That only works if both smoking and non-smoking clubs are equivalent.

Smoker can go to Club Air or Club Cancer.  They have a choice.  If they go to Club Air, they can go outside to smoke.

Asthmatic can only go to Club Air.  They do not have the choice not to breathe in Club Cancer.

Therefore, if something cool is going on in Club Cancer, asthmatics cannot attend.

Think about that when you start talking about fairness.

[Adios]

That only works if both smoking and non-smoking clubs are equivalent.

Smoker can go to Club Air or Club Cancer.  They have a choice.  If they go to Club Air, they can go outside to smoke.

Asthmatic can only go to Club Air.  They do not have the choice not to breathe in Club Cancer.

Therefore, if something cool is going on in Club Cancer, asthmatics cannot attend.

Think about that when you start talking about fairness.

Make smokers stand outside 50 feet away from the entrance in the winter freezing.

Think about that when you start talking about fairness.

[Cain]

Or if your town has only one pub, like many of the villages around here.

[Adios]

Or if your town has only one pub, like many of the villages around here.

This is one of the few legitimate points made so far.

[LMNO]

That only works if both smoking and non-smoking clubs are equivalent.

Smoker can go to Club Air or Club Cancer.  They have a choice.  If they go to Club Air, they can go outside to smoke.

Asthmatic can only go to Club Air.  They do not have the choice not to breathe in Club Cancer.

Therefore, if something cool is going on in Club Cancer, asthmatics cannot attend.

Think about that when you start talking about fairness.

Make smokers stand outside 50 feet away from the entrance in the winter freezing.

Think about that when you start talking about fairness.

Oh, so smoking is no longer a choice?

[Adios]

That only works if both smoking and non-smoking clubs are equivalent.

Smoker can go to Club Air or Club Cancer.  They have a choice.  If they go to Club Air, they can go outside to smoke.

Asthmatic can only go to Club Air.  They do not have the choice not to breathe in Club Cancer.

Therefore, if something cool is going on in Club Cancer, asthmatics cannot attend.

Think about that when you start talking about fairness.

Make smokers stand outside 50 feet away from the entrance in the winter freezing.

Think about that when you start talking about fairness.

Oh, so smoking is no longer a choice?

You really want to continue the strawman argument? Club Air will book the event at a later date if they have any brains once they see how popular it is.

[LMNO]

You really want to continue the strawman argument? Club Air will book the event at a later date if they have any brains once they see how popular it is.

Wait, what?  You're saying that all clubs are interchangable?

[Adios]

You really want to continue the strawman argument? Club Air will book the event at a later date if they have any brains once they see how popular it is.

Wait, what?  You're saying that all clubs are interchangable?

You made the point. If you are a club owner and you refuse to book an act just because they don't fit your preconceived notion, regardless of how popular the act is then you may want to consider another line of work.

[Cain]

It basically comes down to this:

Both a smoker and a non-smoker can go out and have a good time without in any way interferring with each other's ability to have a good time.  However, as soon as a smoker lights up, it becomes necessary for me to leave.  If they don't have a smoke, it is not going to kill them, though if they haven't smoked in a while, it will become deeply unpleasant after a while.  On the other hand, people can die from asthma attacks (I probably wouldn't, in fact I am almost entirely recovered from asthma, but cigarette smoke is one of my allergens, which provokes the attack).  A smoker, in doing that, is asserting their right to smoke overrules my right to go out.

[Adios]

It basically comes down to this:

Both a smoker and a non-smoker can go out and have a good time without in any way interferring with each other's ability to have a good time.  However, as soon as a smoker lights up, it becomes necessary for me to leave.  If they don't have a smoke, it is not going to kill them, though if they haven't smoked in a while, it will become deeply unpleasant after a while.  On the other hand, people can die from asthma attacks (I probably wouldn't, in fact I am almost entirely recovered from asthma, but cigarette smoke is one of my allergens, which provokes the attack).  A smoker, in doing that, is asserting their right to smoke overrules my right to go out.

If we were out having drinks I would respect your condition and go away from you to smoke. Maybe I am just weird.

[Cain]

It basically comes down to this:

Both a smoker and a non-smoker can go out and have a good time without in any way interferring with each other's ability to have a good time.  However, as soon as a smoker lights up, it becomes necessary for me to leave.  If they don't have a smoke, it is not going to kill them, though if they haven't smoked in a while, it will become deeply unpleasant after a while.  On the other hand, people can die from asthma attacks (I probably wouldn't, in fact I am almost entirely recovered from asthma, but cigarette smoke is one of my allergens, which provokes the attack).  A smoker, in doing that, is asserting their right to smoke overrules my right to go out.

If we were out having drinks I would respect your condition and go away from you to smoke. Maybe I am just weird.

Lots of people do not.  Lots of people do not give a shit.  Or act outraged if you ask them to put their cigarette out.  Or actually attack you.

[Adios]

LMNO, sorry if I came across assholish, not my intention.

[LMNO]

LMNO, sorry if I came across assholish, not my intention.

That's ok.  I'm not firm on my position.  If I thought that having a dedicated smoking bar would work, or a completely voluntary compliance would satisfy everyone, I'd get behind it.  I just don't see that as feasible in the current climate.

It occurs to me that the only way to make it work without regulation is for everyone to suddenly start acting nice to each other, including strangers.

And we know how well that works.