Unlimited Obama Appreciation Thread.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I work in IT and I can think of ways to "create more jobs", but why would we?

Ever see what happens to people who survive for long periods of time without working?

[Adios]

I work in IT and I can think of ways to "create more jobs", but why would we?

Ever see what happens to people who survive for long periods of time without working?

Hell Roger, let's just kill off everybody who can't find work, that will help with the other problem as well. Right?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I work in IT and I can think of ways to "create more jobs", but why would we?

Ever see what happens to people who survive for long periods of time without working?

Hell Roger, let's just kill off everybody who can't find work, that will help with the other problem as well. Right?

You don't have to.  They just turn into drones like Von Melee and Nurse Mayhem.

[Captain Utopia]

Don't blame the robots... all the stats I look at show a MASSIVE decline in industrial fatalities over time.  How much of this is due to compliance and regulation, I have no clue, but the less squishy meatbags you have in direct contact with heavy/poisonous/pointy things, the better.

Greed may have caused it, but the results are not altogether terrible.  That is, if you prefer to be unemployed than dead.

Youth may or may not be more superficial than before.  But they are also getting involved in global concepts and events in an unprecedented scale.  I'm happy with that trade-off.

Ah, thanks for finding that.  I wasn't making a link between industrial fatalities and youth superficiality - I was addressing two separate points.  I guess inline quotes might have made that clearer.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I work in IT and I can think of ways to "create more jobs", but why would we?

Ever see what happens to people who survive for long periods of time without working?

I think I stated that poorly... What driver is there to become less efficient and less cost effective?

We can make more jobs but they would be unnecessary jobs. They would be jobs that can be done better and faster without people. So why would we do that? Is every company in the country responsible to employ as many people as possible, regardless of the necessity of the job?

It seems to me that we have to come to terms with a world where there simply aren't enough jobs to go around and plan accordingly.

[Don Coyote]

So yeah, seeing more people get involved - even if it's in a superficial way for now, re-tweeting the latest false rumour - is moving in the right direction.

No, it isn't.  That isn't "getting involved", that's called "fucking off".

And so it's worse than doing nothing?

It's the same thing as charging a sigil, lighting a candle or saying a prayer for some sick kid in a hospital.

[Adios]

I work in IT and I can think of ways to "create more jobs", but why would we?

Ever see what happens to people who survive for long periods of time without working?

I think I stated that poorly... What driver is there to become less efficient and less cost effective?

We can make more jobs but they would be unnecessary jobs. They would be jobs that can be done better and faster without people. So why would we do that? Is every company in the country responsible to employ as many people as possible, regardless of the necessity of the job?

It seems to me that we have to come to terms with a world where there simply aren't enough jobs to go around and plan accordingly.

And e are right back to there being too many people.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I work in IT and I can think of ways to "create more jobs", but why would we?

Ever see what happens to people who survive for long periods of time without working?

I think I stated that poorly... What driver is there to become less efficient and less cost effective?

We can make more jobs but they would be unnecessary jobs. They would be jobs that can be done better and faster without people. So why would we do that? Is every company in the country responsible to employ as many people as possible, regardless of the necessity of the job?

It seems to me that we have to come to terms with a world where there simply aren't enough jobs to go around and plan accordingly.

And e are right back to there being too many people.

Or a need for a new way of organizing this stuff...

For example, the RICH economy in SC basically creates a Leisure Class. When people lose their job they become part of the Leisure class which receives an annual stipend from the government which is x% of the GDP. It also included education so they could get a job doing something else if they wanted to.

Another idea I've heard involved splitting the existing work, so instead of 60% of the population working 40 hours a week , you get 75 or 80% of the population working 30 hours a week, or 25 or whatever works.

I mean we can say its too many people, but technology will likely be replacing people for a long time to come... So do we just start passing out cyanide with pink slips?

[Cain]

I've long been a fan of the national dividend system.  Funded with a 0.1% global Tobin Tax, it would allow everyone to have enough to live on without means testing, and that income could be supplemented by other means without the base payment being affected.  It would make low paying but socially necessary jobs (nursing, teachers, social workers, cleaners, dustbin collection etc) more attractive, allow artists to spend more time making art instead of looking for ways to subsist and probably even save money by allowing much of the welfare system to be abolished.

Friedman's negative income tax would also be acceptable, but I think this provides more incentives for engaging in socially necessary careers than his model.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I work in IT and I can think of ways to "create more jobs", but why would we?

Ever see what happens to people who survive for long periods of time without working?

I think I stated that poorly... What driver is there to become less efficient and less cost effective?

We can make more jobs but they would be unnecessary jobs. They would be jobs that can be done better and faster without people. So why would we do that? Is every company in the country responsible to employ as many people as possible, regardless of the necessity of the job?

It seems to me that we have to come to terms with a world where there simply aren't enough jobs to go around and plan accordingly.

Depends where you place your values.  None of these jobs are unnecessary...They're just currently being done by what is essentially slave labor in other countries.

Are your priorities geared toward maximization of profits, ie, the most benefit for corporations and shareholders, or are they what's best for the country?

Because it's become painfully obvious that the two are not the same thing, in the medium term...And we can see right now what happens when we favor the corporations.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

allow artists to spend more time making art instead of looking for ways to subsist

This is strictly anecdotal, but when I wasn't working, I wasn't writing, because I had nothing to write about.  I'm pretty sure art isn't driven by leisure time.

At least not for any artists I know.  Nurse Mayhem is a classic example.  She does nothing anymore...She can't even keep up with single-piece commission work, because she's become a useless food tube.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

For example, the RICH economy in SC basically creates a Leisure Class.

99% drones.  I am sure that there are some people out there that would do something amazing with their time, but I think that almost everyone involved would turn into fat, couch-dwelling baby machines.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I mean we can say its too many people, but technology will likely be replacing people for a long time to come... So do we just start passing out cyanide with pink slips?

I work in heavy industry.  TECHNOLOGY CREATES JOBS, IT DOES NOT ELIMINATE THEM.  At this refinery alone, automation has added 15 jobs, from 41 people to 56...And we're hardly unique in that respect.

[Cain]

allow artists to spend more time making art instead of looking for ways to subsist

This is strictly anecdotal, but when I wasn't working, I wasn't writing, because I had nothing to write about.  I'm pretty sure art isn't driven by leisure time.

At least not for any artists I know.  Nurse Mayhem is a classic example.  She does nothing anymore...She can't even keep up with single-piece commission work, because she's become a useless food tube.

Well, it does depend on the kind of art.  I know a few painters, and working to afford studio/material costs really eats into their actual art-making time.

Plus I think removing that desperate need to make enough to survive on would actually free them financially and mentally to seek out the kind of experiences they need to get creative...I mean, if that is working hard, then no-one is stopping them, they'll just have a nice little bit of extra cash at the end of it.

I think would also probably encourage people who have considered an artistic career but worry about the financial viability of it, for one reason or another.  I know that, for example, I wont be able to work on this large piece of fiction I've planned out until I've sorted out my immediate career future, since that is taking up most of my time.

But I will concede it varies on a case-by-case basis.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

allow artists to spend more time making art instead of looking for ways to subsist

This is strictly anecdotal, but when I wasn't working, I wasn't writing, because I had nothing to write about.  I'm pretty sure art isn't driven by leisure time.

At least not for any artists I know.  Nurse Mayhem is a classic example.  She does nothing anymore...She can't even keep up with single-piece commission work, because she's become a useless food tube.

Well, it does depend on the kind of art.  I know a few painters, and working to afford studio/material costs really eats into their actual art-making time.

Plus I think removing that desperate need to make enough to survive on would actually free them financially and mentally to seek out the kind of experiences they need to get creative...I mean, if that is working hard, then no-one is stopping them, they'll just have a nice little bit of extra cash at the end of it.

I think would also probably encourage people who have considered an artistic career but worry about the financial viability of it, for one reason or another.  I know that, for example, I wont be able to work on this large piece of fiction I've planned out until I've sorted out my immediate career future, since that is taking up most of my time.

But I will concede it varies on a case-by-case basis.

And I'll concede that I'd rather have 99 drones and 1 Michealangelo than not have 99 drones and 1 Michealangelo.